Page 5 of 7 FirstFirst 1234567 LastLast
Results 61 to 75 of 104

Thread: A Real Transfer of Power as Putin's Surprise

  1. #61
    Patron Alex_Ivanov's Avatar
    Join Date
    18 Jul 06
    Location
    Russia
    Posts
    202
    Quote Originally Posted by Feanor View Post
    Money is saved to a degree, but most people distrust the banks because of previous defaults.
    State deposit assurance system helped a little. I, personally, do not like sleeping on money (for those who understand).

    Quote Originally Posted by S-2
    Can you, with proper professional credibility and a sound/legal business plan go to a bank and apply for a business loan? Would the bank evaluate your loan application free of state interference/constraits upon the free flow of capital?
    Yes, you can apply. Will the bank give you a loan? Maybe. State interference? Unlikely, bank just cares not to lose its money. You will get your loan without any problems if someone with enough money will be your guarantee.

  2. #62
    Banned
    Join Date
    12 Jun 07
    Location
    San Jose, CA
    Posts
    2,297
    So what about Udaltsev as a unity candidate for the entire opposition? He's fairly popular, at the front of many popular actions. He's not as marginalized as some, he's in clear opposition to the current regime for it's restrictions of democratic freedoms. He has a clear platform, and his political identity is easily definable with no powerful interest groups (read FSB) standing behind his back.

  3. #63
    Regular
    Join Date
    09 Oct 07
    Location
    Moscow
    Posts
    85
    Quote Originally Posted by Alex_Ivanov View Post
    What do we argue about? I don't think I look like brainless young activist of certain youth movement painting Putin in all white. I just said Kasyanov-corruption-fighter is funny, as well as many other politicians.

    BTW, Putin appeared to be a family's mistake, fortunatelly.
    Agreed -- kasyanov is an embittered has-been shouldered aside, as far as possible, from the trough.



    Quote Originally Posted by Alex_Ivanov View Post
    But now it's harder to get such a governor. Look at new governors: they all aren't genial, but nobody is really bad. Life from election till election was like watching bad movie being tied to your chair. When the movie is over, you can choose another one, but nobody can guarantee it would be any better.
    I don't think taht there are no really bad governors -- and now we're watcing movies whch are chosen by the man in the Kremlin, without being able to choose them; actually, we are held hostage to his taste in cinema.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alex_Ivanov View Post
    In any country there're 10% of people able to think, analyze and choose good leaders. But their votes sink in a sea of other 90% votes. That's how democracy works.

    I see some advantages of restricted democracy, and I understand perfectly all its disadvantages. What's better? It depends, changes in situation must be in all probability followed by changes in political system.
    So, you do think that the present guided democracy is going to evolve into something else in due time?


    Quote Originally Posted by Alex_Ivanov View Post
    Economy can not stay unaffected by huge political changes. It's hard to believe that there's no any link.
    They aren't huge -- huge political change is, I dunno, something like the October revolution.



    Quote Originally Posted by Alex_Ivanov View Post
    And one small addition. Germans had to build up democracy and repair their economy, that was capitalistic from the beginning, unlike soviet economy, which echo we still hear.
    It can be debated whether the Nazi economy was something which had been envisaged by Adam Smith, but I cannot deny that Germany was accustomed to the capitalist model of economic relations.



    Quote Originally Posted by Alex_Ivanov View Post
    In fact every nation is stupid enough to to elect radical, populist, or just incompetent representatives provided they have enough media coverage. That's why such movements are officially or unofficially restricted in many countries to make political process stable and predictable.
    Well, yes, but now we have only one (OK, one and a half) unrestricted movement.

  4. #64
    Regular
    Join Date
    09 Oct 07
    Location
    Moscow
    Posts
    85
    Quote Originally Posted by Alex_Ivanov View Post
    I'm interested to hear more of his opinion.
    Believe me, you don't. Heck, I myself don't want.



    Quote Originally Posted by Alex_Ivanov View Post
    Back then world-wide consumption was much lower, Middle East was relatively stable and Soviet Union pumped more and more according to plan
    ) Yes. 2) The Middle East was less stable, if anything -- the Iranian revolution, the Iran-Iraq war, the Juhaiman (sp?) rebellion in Saudia Arabia... lots of stuff, 3) oh yes! But Iranian oil production had fallen dramatically.

  5. #65
    Regular
    Join Date
    09 Oct 07
    Location
    Moscow
    Posts
    85
    Quote Originally Posted by Feanor View Post
    So what about Udaltsev as a unity candidate for the entire opposition? He's fairly popular, at the front of many popular actions. He's not as marginalized as some, he's in clear opposition to the current regime for it's restrictions of democratic freedoms. He has a clear platform, and his political identity is easily definable with no powerful interest groups (read FSB) standing behind his back.
    Exactly. That's why his vote is going to be in single digits should he stand for election. The people in Russia for the most part support the present regime, are enamoured of Putin, and all of the interest groups are behind the Kremlin.

  6. #66
    Banned
    Join Date
    12 Jun 07
    Location
    San Jose, CA
    Posts
    2,297
    One and a half unrestricted movements? I can list atleast half a dozen, two of them major enough to cause trouble on a national scale.

  7. #67
    Regular
    Join Date
    09 Oct 07
    Location
    Moscow
    Posts
    85
    Quote Originally Posted by Feanor View Post
    One and a half unrestricted movements? I can list atleast half a dozen, two of them major enough to cause trouble on a national scale.
    Err... I don't think you'll see anybody bar the United Russia and the Just Russia prancing around in the national news.

  8. #68
    Banned
    Join Date
    12 Jun 07
    Location
    San Jose, CA
    Posts
    2,297
    I'm not sure I understand what you said.

  9. #69
    Regular
    Join Date
    09 Oct 07
    Location
    Moscow
    Posts
    85
    Quote Originally Posted by Feanor View Post
    I'm not sure I understand what you said.
    The United Russia and the Just Russia will get preferential treatment in the news to the detriment of the other parties and their candidates; that's what I call 'unrestricted movement', not some legal impediments.

  10. #70
    Patron Alex_Ivanov's Avatar
    Join Date
    18 Jul 06
    Location
    Russia
    Posts
    202
    Quote Originally Posted by Ophir View Post
    I don't think taht there are no really bad governors -- and now we're watcing movies whch are chosen by the man in the Kremlin, without being able to choose them; actually, we are held hostage to his taste in cinema.
    If your taste differs much from crowd's taste, you won't feel worse in new situation. When you depend on president's choice, you can blame president for bad governors. Combined with your ability to vote president out, that gives not the worst political system around. Compare it to being hostage of people's choice. Nobody can be blamed, nothing can be changed, you are among "idiots who elected that idiot" yourself.

    The last problem - people around can't be trusted to elect good president too, but unchangeable president is even worse. My political views are in dead-end here, because I really do not know how to jump out of this paradox.

    So, you do think that the present guided democracy is going to evolve into something else in due time?
    Sure, it will evolve, but nobody can predict in what direction.

    They aren't huge -- huge political change is, I dunno, something like the October revolution.
    Ok, let's choose another word. But anyway I still doubt it hadn't any effect on economy.

    Well, yes, but now we have only one (OK, one and a half) unrestricted movement.
    CPRF isn't much restricted, UR needs some party to debate with. But I fell communists themselves are not interested to grab any more power than 20% of Duma seats. I do not want to vote for any existing party...

  11. #71
    Banned
    Join Date
    12 Jun 07
    Location
    San Jose, CA
    Posts
    2,297
    Quote Originally Posted by Alex_Ivanov View Post
    The last problem - people around can't be trusted to elect good president too, but unchangeable president is even worse. My political views are in dead-end here, because I really do not know how to jump out of this paradox.
    How about an educated electorate?

  12. #72
    Regular
    Join Date
    09 Oct 07
    Location
    Moscow
    Posts
    85
    Quote Originally Posted by Alex_Ivanov View Post
    If your taste differs much from crowd's taste, you won't feel worse in new situation. When you depend on president's choice, you can blame president for bad governors. Combined with your ability to vote president out, that gives not the worst political system around. Compare it to being hostage of people's choice. Nobody can be blamed, nothing can be changed, you are among "idiots who elected that idiot" yourself.

    The last problem - people around can't be trusted to elect good president too, but unchangeable president is even worse. My political views are in dead-end here, because I really do not know how to jump out of this paradox.
    Exactly -- it is a paradox indeed.



    Quote Originally Posted by Alex_Ivanov View Post
    CPRF isn't much restricted, UR needs some party to debate with. But I fell communists themselves are not interested to grab any more power than 20% of Duma seats. I do not want to vote for any existing party...
    Why don't you want to vote for Putin and the United Russia?

  13. #73
    Regular
    Join Date
    09 Oct 07
    Location
    Moscow
    Posts
    85
    Quote Originally Posted by Feanor View Post
    How about an educated electorate?
    Good in theory, hard to be defined as such in practice, I'd say.

  14. #74
    Banned
    Join Date
    12 Jun 07
    Location
    San Jose, CA
    Posts
    2,297
    Quote Originally Posted by Ophir View Post
    Good in theory, hard to be defined as such in practice, I'd say.
    Well then we're looking at a communist society aren't we? Education for the masses has to be coupled with social progress and social awareness that goes far beyond what would be considered normal. People would work because they know their work is important for holding up society, not because they get paid. At that point we can abolish money, and with it class. Those kinds of educated masses would however not need a leader. Sooo . . . . . . . we're back to square one. Damnit. When I started typing this I had point.

  15. #75
    Patron Alex_Ivanov's Avatar
    Join Date
    18 Jul 06
    Location
    Russia
    Posts
    202
    Quote Originally Posted by Ophir View Post
    Why don't you want to vote for Putin and the United Russia?
    There's an anecdote: Putin, Mironov and Gryzlov are in restaurant. Waiter asks what would they like to eat. Putin says: "Meat". Waiter: "and vegetables?" Putin: "And meat for vegetables too". I don't want such vegetables to be in Duma.

    Well, United Russia is "partiya holuev", a lackey party. I saw a lot of people who changed their views to opposite once they joined it. It reminds CPSU too much. And Putin as #1 in their list doesn't change anything. I can see some need in lackey parliament today, it won't resist absolutely needed laws, etc. But I still do not want to vote for vegetables.

    And I remember one episode from history. When Nicholas I died and Alexander II became Russian czar, he changed a lot of ministers. His mother asked "and how are you going to rule this wild country without loyal servants of your father? Young czar replied: "My father was genius and he could surround himself by dumbheads. I am an ordinary man and I need clever people". The same is today. Putin as genius is able to have dumbs around, moreover, he needs dumbs who isn't able to resist his policy (positive one in my mind), but sooner or later another president will need to do something about it. That's why I said current "managed democracy" will inevitably evolve into something else.

Page 5 of 7 FirstFirst 1234567 LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. The Causes & Consequences of Strategic Failure in Afghanistan & Iraq
    By lulldapull in forum The Middle East and North Africa
    Replies: 35
    Last Post: 20 May 08,, 08:48
  2. Afghanistan and the Future of Warfare
    By troung in forum Military Aviation
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 23 Feb 08,, 00:59
  3. Your Thoughts on David Icke?
    By joey2 in forum World Affairs Board Pub
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 29 Dec 06,, 11:55
  4. The B-70 and the fight btw Kennedy/Vinson
    By Bill in forum Military Aviation
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 06 Nov 06,, 14:11
  5. Developing countries’ goods trade share surges to 50-year peak
    By oneman28 in forum International Economy
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 21 Apr 05,, 18:58

Share this thread with friends:

Share this thread with friends:

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •