Incomparable US - UK Military budget/Power

**VarSity** · 23 Jul 07, 10:38

I think peeps in the UK like to think of the US Army (Not the Marines tho for some reason) as being less well trained and more than anything, a little but thick.

I blame the above on Vietnam movies.

Someone mentioned the pay being a difference in costs. Are British Soldiers paid more than their US counterparts? or do the Brit forces usually serve for longer, so thus get higher pay grades?

**pdf27** · 23 Jul 07, 11:43

US Army - source What's it pay to be an Army of One? - values are initial base pay in rank.

Code:

E1	Private                              $13,809.60	
E2	Private                              $15,480.00	
E3	Private 1st Class                    $16,282.80	
E4	Corporal or Specialist 4             $18,032.40	
E5	Sergeant                             $19,504.80	
E6	Staff Sergeant                       $21,247.20	
E7	Sergeant 1st Class	             $24,822.00
E8	Master Sergeant or 1st Sergeant      $35,704.80	
E9	Sergeant Major                       $42,771.60

British Army - source Armed Forces - a12a1 - British Army - Army Pay Scales April 1 2006 - March 31 2007 and assuming £1 = $2 (roughly current exchange rate), taking the lower rate and level 1 so giving minimum pay for each rank.

Code:

E1    New Entrant                            $24,322
E2    Private                                $28,644
E3    Lance Corporal                         $36,688
E4    Corporal                               $47,070
E5/E6 Sergeant                               $53,500
E7    Staff/Colour Sergeant                  $59,224
E8/E9 WO2 (Company Sergeant Major level)     $64,260
E8/E9 WO1 (Regimental Sergeant Major level)  $68,808

Can someone familiar with US military pay please take a look at the US figures - they seem awfully low in comparison with the UK, although I was aware that UK troops are rather better paid. However, for a new recruit straight off the street to be paid the same as a US first Sergeant seems a tad unlikely.

**VarSity** · 23 Jul 07, 11:56

I think the US ones may be before allowances, and the UK ones are before deductions such as bed and board.

Also there is a higher tax rate in the UK, and they get taxed when they are in other countries, which is stupid.

**pdf27** · 23 Jul 07, 14:18

True, although the UK one is also as far as I can tell before allowances (the X-factor, which is IIRC 13%). Unless US troops get totally free board and lodging then it's probably pretty representative.

**VarSity** · 23 Jul 07, 14:40

There must be a reason for it. Maybe the US lot get more cash for specialisations. Comms or Marksman that sort of thing.

If they dont I feel sorry for the grunts on the ground. Hell im always moaning that UK servicemen dont get paid enough, looks like they are not as bad off as I thought.

Can someone actually live on less that $14,000 dollars a year in the USA?
US Census Press Releases
says the average income for a household is around $43,000. Would need a couple of Sergeants shacking up to hit that target... I always knew Drill Sergeants leaned that way :P

**pdf27** · 23 Jul 07, 17:30

I am certainly aware of publicised cases where the families of serving US personnell have been in recipt of food stamps, which presumably indicates that they were very poorly paid.
Certain benefits paid in the US to service personnell - notably university funding and healthcare for life - aren't really comparable in the UK as UK soldiers already get these (as do the rest of the general population). However, they do improve the position of US soldiers relative to the rest of the US population. For the purposes of this comparison you would do best to pull down the average US income by something in the region of $5-10k to represent these costs. The tax burden in the UK is somewhat higher, but not nearly high enough to account for the difference between the two.

Remember also that the US rank structure is somewhat different - for instance, AIUI a Sergeant functions as a squad leader (?). In terms of role and responsibilities this is the job of a Corporal in UK practice, platoons only having a single Sergeant. The upshot of this is that soldiers reach higher rank a lot faster in the US - so comparing rank to rank isn't terribly helpful.

**VarSity** · 23 Jul 07, 17:44

Even so a UK Corporal's pay is still alot better than a US Sergeant or Staff Sergeant.

Also I was under the impression that US Sergeant's pritty much run the show, the rest of the higher ups try to keep out of their way...

Or have i been watching 2 many vietnam movies again?

(To avoid a flame, when I say a Sergeant runs the showm I mean at squad level. Not the whole battle plan thing)

**pdf27** · 23 Jul 07, 21:03

Originally Posted by VarSity

(To avoid a flame, when I say a Sergeant runs the showm I mean at squad level. Not the whole battle plan thing)

No different in the UK and elsewhere - it's the whole concept of mission command. You tell your sub-unit commanders what you want doing and any relevant timings and information. They decide for themselves how they're going to do it.

**VarSity** · 24 Jul 07, 09:30

Sorry I made my point badly. Does a UK Lance Corporal/Corporal do the job of a Sergeant in the US Army?

Kind of means they get the cash and the responsibility earlier does it not?

**pdf27** · 24 Jul 07, 10:31

Originally Posted by VarSity

Sorry I made my point badly. Does a UK Lance Corporal/Corporal do the job of a Sergeant in the US Army?
Kind of means they get the cash and the responsibility earlier does it not?

If I've got my roles and responsibilities straight then the roles of a UK Corporal and US Sergeant are the same. However, if I understand the system correctly then US soldiers tend to make Sergeant rather quicker than UK soldiers make Corporal. Simply put, this is down to the average length of service being longer in the UK.

**ArmchairGeneral** · 25 Jul 07, 04:31

Originally Posted by VarSity

Can someone actually live on less that $14,000 dollars a year in the USA?
US Census Press Releases
says the average income for a household is around $43,000. Would need a couple of Sergeants shacking up to hit that target... I always knew Drill Sergeants leaned that way :P

Like you said, that pay rate is probably before allowances for bed and board, so it's hard to compare it to the general US population. My family has done pretty well on around $12000 a year for a long time, but we have had rather odd living situations which make it difficult to compare us to normal people.

I'm guessing bed and board would raise the pay rates by something like $6000 to $8000, putting the starting pay at around $20,000 or so. I'd say that a single person can live on that in most parts of the US, pretty comfortably by my standards, kind of spartan by American standards, and living like a king compared to most of the world.

As for the average household income thing, well, yeah, it would take a couple of Sergeants to make that, which makes sense, since most households have two incomes. So Mr. and Mrs. Sergeant together make a pretty reasonable living.

**glyn** · 25 Jul 07, 10:19

Originally Posted by ArmchairGeneral

My family has done pretty well on around $12000 a year for a long time, but we have had rather odd living situations which make it difficult to compare us to normal people.

Sounds like an interesting story waiting to be told.

**McFire** · 25 Jul 07, 21:57

I think the US pay table you have is wrong, or outdated. My pay (E-6) is on par with the UK E-6. Initially, US base pay looks low, but when you start adding allowances it gets pretty good. Everyone gets allowances for food, and if you live off-base, for housing (called basic allowance for housing - BAH). Depending on where you live, that can be a substantial allowance. My current allowance pays for my mortgage and utilites, wihout touching my base pay. Also, when stationed in a high cost overseas area, you get a cost of living allowance, which sometimes can be substantial. When both husband and wife are in the military, they live quite well.

**pdf27** · 25 Jul 07, 23:51

Originally Posted by McFire

I think the US pay table you have is wrong, or outdated. My pay (E-6) is on par with the UK E-6.

Could you possibly take a look at the source and see how close it is once you start allowing for experience? I've deliberately taken all pay values for both armies at the minimum scale for the rank to make comparing them practical, so if you've been in rank for more than a year or so it's likely to be on the low side compared to your pay.
Also, are there any handy references for what the allowances are worth and up-to-date official pay scales? The US figures are from a slightly suspect CNN page, and I noted at the time they seemed a bit low.

Thanks a lot.

**McFire** · 26 Jul 07, 01:24

Try;

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