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Thread: Russia on the march - again

  1. #301
    Senior Contributor smilingassassin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feanor View Post
    You, smilingassassin. A dozen posts back or so when I made the comment you were trying to convince us that Russia poisoned Yuschenko? Trust me if they put poison in his food he'd be dead.
    Dioxin is a poison and I don't recall if I acctually stated they meant to kill him but he came close...and you attempt to imply that i don't need facts to support my believe?

    Yushchenko became seriously ill in early September 2004. He was flown to Vienna's Rudolfinerhaus clinic for treatment and diagnosed with "acute pancreatitis, accompanied by interstitial edematous changes", due to "a serious viral infection and chemical substances that are not normally found in food products". Yushchenko claimed such poisoning to be the work of government agents. After the illness, his face became heavily disfigured: grossly jaundiced, bloated, and pockmarked.

    After seeing Yushchenko's deformed face on the evening news, the Dutch toxicologist Bram Brouwer contacted the Rudolfinerhaus to test some of Yushchenko's blood at the Free University of Amsterdam for dioxin. According to Dr. Michael Zimpfer, president of the Rudolfinerhaus, these tests provided conclusive evidence that Yushchenko's condition resulted from "high concentrations of dioxin, most likely orally administered". This hypothesis had already been suggested by British toxicologist Prof John Henry of St Mary's Hospital in London because the marks on Yushchenko's face were chloracne, a characteristic symptom of dioxin poisoning. Other scientists suggested that the illness might have been the result of rosacea but this theory failed to account for the severe internal medical problems that Yushchenko suffered. On December 11, Austrian doctors confirmed Yushchenko had been poisoned with TCDD dioxin, and had more than 1,000 times (other sources said 6,000 times) the usual concentration in his body.[5] This was the second highest dioxin level ever measured in a human. Yushchenko's chief of staff Oleg Ribachuk suggested that the poison used was a mycotoxin called T-2, also known as "Yellow Rain", a Soviet-era substance reputedly used in Afghanistan as a chemical weapon.
    Facts to a liberal is like Kryptonite to Superman.

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  2. #302
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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat Canuck View Post
    Dude, what are you on? There have been two recent poisonings.

    As for the spigot comment. They are building a wall to keep out the illegals which storm the border every single night in large numbers. A problem I'm sure Russians might have a hard time understanding given that you've been more inclined on building walls to keep people in. Historically speaking in this instance I mean.
    To which MrFirst replied:

    Quote Originally Posted by MrFirst View Post
    Only in the sick imagination of mr. Yuschenko and his PR-managers. The fact of "poisoning" wasn't proved yet, despite the fact that mr. Yuschenko have already dismissed three prosecutors generals. Didn't you know about that?..
    Then you said:

    Quote Originally Posted by smilingassassin View Post
    Sure, its not like the Brits have lots of radioactive isotopes leaving a trail of bread crumbs.....



    Sometimes the truth can hurt, other times it can be funny, but in this case both apply....
    Which sounded like you were implying that Yuschenko was poisoned by the KGB.

  3. #303
    Senior Contributor smilingassassin's Avatar
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    The first quote is wrong on my part, thats in reguards to the litvinyenko (spelling?) assassination. Yuchenko was almost certainly poisoned by somebody given the fact he had the second highest level of Dioxins found in a human being. Trouble is Dioxins cause so many serious health complications its hard to tell just what level is needed to kill somebody.

    It is ironic that the same poison linked to Agent Orange is the poison found in the leader of the orange revolution....
    Facts to a liberal is like Kryptonite to Superman.

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  4. #304
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    Yep. Blame the oranges.

  5. #305
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    Quote Originally Posted by braindead View Post
    hopefully THIS part is not true
    I'm afraid it's true. Even this 'kicked out guy' from the article sounds hopeless.

  6. #306
    Senior Reader Senior Contributor entropy's Avatar
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    Part four

    (My apologies for my absence, I am currently moving, studying maths for the new University year and the pressure has been high as my lessons commence the 17th and I have yet to paint my studio and assemble the furniture. I have now found the time to translate the article).

    Have you received the money?

    I saw a text saying that I had to receive $1.5 thousand, but I've never received them.

    Where does the money go?

    "Mass actions". Look, you see the three phrases here (Ivan points at the screen): payment in advance, spent, over-the-limit spending. The money was given on demand by regional leaders. Here, approximately $11.5 thousand (for a month) were delivered, and over $20 thousand were used, which means that nearly $8.5 thousand was over the limit. Where the money did go is unknown.
    In fact their accountant reports are crazy. They write off checks and get reports without knowing what the money goes to. I wrote such papers myself on the accountant's orders.

    At the end of each month these accountant papers are delivered in bags to Moscow, into a non-governmental school Irmos, close to the Belorusskaja metro. The Nashi headquarters are located there. The checks and reports are put on a tble and then sorted by hand according to region. Usually it all comes together, but if not, then the regional leaders demand extra money for over-the-limit spending. I was in the school.

    After the conversation with Ivan I've studied the site of the school. There was no reference to participation in the Nashi movement, but it was mentioned that the school is the base of the Governmental University - High school of Economics. I called the school. A person picked up and presented himself as the manager.

    Can I speak to the director, I am a correspondend of the Vlast magazine?

    -Speak about what?

    I want to know if the Nashi headquarters are located in your school.

    -Then ask Nashi.

    They gave me the information, do you confirm it?

    -Oh yeah? So what? I won't tell you, he yelled and hung up the phone violently. I dialled the number a few more times, yet no one picked up.


    So, those checks, where are they going afterwards?

    That is beyond my knowlegde.

    Ok. During the last days Vasilij Yakemenko said that he wants to leave the post of the movement, have you heard something about a possible replacement?

    Yes, on the Seliger there are elections planned, unusual elections. Yakemenko has to select two regional leaders and give each of them a team. How the teams are formed I don't know. It is known that one of the teams will be directed by the technical director of the Voronezj group Marina Zademidkova. Those teams have to locate a floating island, where a banner is located, and defend it for three hours. The leader of the team that will complete the mission will replace Yakemenko. But who will win, we already know - Marina.

    Gazeta, edition of 24th July, MK (25th July), quoting Nashi sources, wrote that it is possible that some unknown Zademidkova will replace Yakemenko. This information was confirmed on numerous Nashist blogs. They wrote that "instead of Vasja there will be Marina". But there were no confirmation on the nature of the elections resembling the "happy starts' (entropy: happy starts were Pioneer competiotions during the USSR).

    (entropy: there were election, Marina did not put up her candidature, and three teams competed, one of them won, and now there is a new leader).

    Where will Yakemenko head afterwards?

    He will be the head of the Federal agency of Youth Politics.

    Such an agency will be created as a part of the Ministry of education and science - the ministry itself confirmed it. It is unknow who will be the leader of the agency

    What will happen with the movement after 2008? Will it exist?

    Yes. Plans are until 2012.

    Tell about the near future.

    Well, for example, on the parliamentary elections we have plans for the moshing of Just Russia (Ivan used the word "mochit", a vulgar word for squashing, moshing, bashing something, entropy). Nashi will be regional observers during the elections.

    How will the moshing happen?

    There is an idea of the organization of the "reversed carousel", but it is still in discussion. It goes like this:

    First one have to find voters, who agree to vote for money, 150-200 rubel per vote. Those who agree receice a fake bulletin, with Just Russia selected. The voter goes to the election cabinet, throws the fake bulletin in the bin, gets a real bulletin and delivers it to the Nashists. Right before the end of the voting the activists, having collected the real bulletins, mark One Russia in it, go to the election cabinet and throw them into the bins. A few minutes before the end the observers tell the authorities that fraud has been detected. Just Russia becomes guilty.
    But the plan is still in discussion, it is unknown who will do it, Nashi or other people.

    And the presidential elections?

    First, in December there will be an exercise of the March elections. 20.000 thousand activists will be mobilized into Moscow in tent camps on all major plains. They will remain there for two weeks. The activists will live there in shifts, changing three times a day. Every time new ones will be delivered, and those who have lived there already will be brought home. The tents will be set up on Pushkinskaja, Bolotnaja, Manezjnaja, about the Lubjanskaja I can't tell, but I doubt it. The action will be repeated in March.

    Why?

    Why?!? So that "orange revolutons" would not take place and the plains would not be occupied by oppositionary forces/

    Do the Nashi know about such plans by the opposition?

    No, of course not, how should the opposition manage to assemble such a force? It is just for safety.

    I've talked with Ivan all day. Not everything he told me I considered appropriate for the interview - mostly for his own safety. I gave him money to get home as a goodbye gift. 07.00 next morning he sent me an SMS that he managed to get home successfully, but will live with friends and not home. It's safer.

  7. #307
    Senior Reader Senior Contributor entropy's Avatar
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    Gentlemen,

    Once again, my deepest apologies for the retardation. I hope that you will find the article interesting. Obviously, not all of it is true, but it can be seen that the Russian government is covering up things. It appears that the freedom of speech will not live long anymore, and I still wonder how free newspapers such as Kommersant manage to survive.

  8. #308
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropy View Post
    No, of course not, how should the opposition manage to assemble such a force? It is just for safety.
    www.AKM1917.org Entropy read through the articles. While most of the opposition forces are not ready to come out on the Red Square, otherwise we are more then active, and are demands are certainly legitimate. And while Nashi are much larger then most opposition groups, they are disorganized and many don't truly support Nashi. On the other hand opposition groups (like us) are often smaller but much more organized and disciplined, often like a small army. Putin's bespredel won't last if we all just do something.
    Last edited by Feanor; 05 Sep 07, at 22:22.

  9. #309
    Ray
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    Jakarta seals Russian arms deal

    Indonesia has already bought four advanced Russian Sukhoi jet fighters [EPA]

    Russia has closed a significant military deal with Indonesia, selling Jakarta a package of weapons including helicopters, tanks and submarines worth more than $1bn.



    The deal will be signed on Thursday during an historic visit to Indonesia by Vladimir Putin, the Russian president, the first by a Russian head of state in nearly 50 years.


    Putin is making a one-day stopover in Indonesia on his way to the summit of leaders from the Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation (Apec) forum in Sydney.



    The arms deal, financed by a 15 year loan from Russia, is Indonesia's first major purchase of military hardware in many years.


    The country used to buy most of its weaponry from the United States, but that source was cut in 1999 when Washington imposed a military embargo on Indonesia over human rights abuses in East Timor.



    Although the embargo was lifted last year, Indonesian military officials have been looking for other sources of arms to replace their increasingly outdated arsenal and decrease their reliance on the US.



    Under the deal, Indonesia will buy two Russian submarines, 20 tanks and 22 helicopters.



    Expansion



    It also plans to buy six more Sukhoi jet fighters on top of the four planes it has already purchased.



    The military denies the purchases represent and expansion of it military force and says the new weapons are not for use in internal conflicts like in Papua for example.



    But Al Jazeera's Jakarta correspondent, Step Vassen, says military officials admit that Russia has promised never to impose a military embargo nor interfere in domestic affairs.



    "There are still hard feelings about the embargo," Marshall Slamet Prihatinio of Indonesia's defence ministry told Al Jazeera.



    "But now the most important thing is that we need to be independent - if we buy military equipment we need to be able to use it, that's our right."



    During his visit Putin is also expected to witness agreements on billions of dollars of Russian investment to help Indonesia revamp its aging oil and mining industries.



    Indonesian mining company Aneka Tambang will sign a $3bn deal with Russian aluminium giant United Company Rusal, while Indonesia's state-owned oil company Pertamina plans to sign a $1bn agreement with Lukoil, one of Russia's biggest oil companies.

    Al Jazeera English - News - Jakarta Seals Russian Arms Deal


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  10. #310
    Regular stasha's Avatar
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    Nazis responsible for Katyn massacre, Russian daily

    Quote Originally Posted by Big K View Post
    the treaty of Versailles was the precursor of the ww2. thats for sure
    but what about the Massacre of Katyn Forest?
    This is sick, Russia is back to blamming others, when are they going to understand this is going to just upset the people even more. Respect, accountability and showing a bit of sorrow may have been human but it appears to be more of a game to Russia at this point.

    The Russian Niezawisimaja Gazieta daily claims that the Soviet NKVD secret police could not possibly have been responsible for the mass murder of over 20,000 Polish officers in 1940.

    The author of the article Aleksandr Szirokorad claims that the massacre could not have possibly been the doing of the NKVD since the ropes used for tying the victims' wrists and bullets were not those used by the NKVD.

    He also claims that the shooting technique used was apparently alien to the NKVD.

    Contrary to most historians opinions, the murders, claims Szirokorad, must have been the work of the Nazis.

    There has already been a series of four articles in the Russian press questioning the truth about Katyn events recently, the last one being inspired by the Oscar nomination for Andrzej Wajda's film Katyn.

    Moscow has refused to define the murders in Russia and Ukraine as ‘genocide’ or regard them as war crimes. (mn

  11. #311
    Regular stasha's Avatar
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    I say Tusk should do what Putin did on the memorial at "Katyn", NO SHOW. Outrage should be shown by the world and Putin's threats of WW3 silenced. Russia does not control Poland, they are a free independent country. Get the missile shield ASAP in Poland, Ukraine into NATO. Show Putin that his threats are making him look like a fool and pushing away any hope for a decent relationship.


    http://www.polskier adio.pl/zagranic a/news/artykul75 353_Comment_ of_the_
    week.html

    Donald Tusk, the Polish Prime Minister, is arriving in Moscow tomorrow. According to Professor Jadwiga Staniszkis, a well-known Polish sociologist, Mr. Tusk's decision to visit Russia before the oncoming presidential election in that country is wrong.

    Comment by Aleksander Kropiwnicki

    There are too many rows between Warsaw and Moscow to expect the visit to be a success. Ahead of the elections the Kremlin wants to show itself as tough, particularly on Poland. The Russians will probably try to humiliate Donald Tusk as they did with some other Polish politicians in the past. President Vladimir Putin can avoid his scheduled meeting with Mr Tusk, just to show him that his person, as
    well as his country, is not a partner for the Kremlin.

    Can Mr. Tusk's visit turn out to be successful after an angry Russian reaction for the initial deal, made by the heads of Polish and American diplomacy on the anti-missile shield system? A Russian envoy to NATO Dmitry Rogozin has threatened Poland with a next world war if
    the American shield is situated on Polish soil. At the same time one of the main Moscow newspapers, Nezavisimaya Gazeta, has come back to the old Soviet lie about the Katyn massacre, claiming that the Polish war prisoners of 1939 were, after all, murdered by the Nazis, not by
    Stalin. Of course, both Mr Rogozin and the newspaper attempt to provoke Poles: Mr Tusk is supposed to start his talks in Moscow with answering those appalling remarks instead of discussing issues vital for both states.

    The crucial question is, if Russia is ready to treat Poland as a sovereign partner. Professor Adam Rotfeld, the former Polish Foreign Minister, now responsible for Poland's relations with Russia at Mr Tusk's Chancellery, doesn't sound very optimistic. Moscow wants to be recognized as a superpower state, equal to the United States, he
    says. Russia is closer to its long tradition of authoritarian
    systems, rather than to the democracy started by Mikhail Gorbachev and Boris Yeltsin, he wrote yesterday in one of the Warsaw newspapers.
    What's the point of the visit, then? Visiting Moscow before
    Washington can make the Americans upset while the Russians are not to become more friendly, anyway. The only answer is that Poland has to show its good will to the European Union. The opinion that the Poles
    have always been trouble-makers, is wrong and it's time to prove it.
    Europe wants us to be more positive about Russia – here you go, we
    are. Moscow claims that Warsaw rejects any constructive dialogue – no, we don't. As for the US, they will understand: appeasement of Russia is something they practice on a daily basis

  12. #312
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    Quote Originally Posted by stasha View Post
    Russia does not control Poland, they are a free independent country.
    Yes, independent. However the US think that it is not. Don't you know that Polish people is against America's system? People even wanted to conduct referendum, but their authorities didn't let them to do this. Previous authorities (extremely pro-west Kachinsky brothers) were pro this system, but they lost the last elections. Tusk is a new prime minister and he is going to repair relations with Russia.

    you should learn some background before advancing slogans
    Last edited by foxhound_nn; 11 Feb 08, at 17:28.

  13. #313
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    Quote Originally Posted by foxhound_nn View Post
    Yes, independent. However the US think that it is not. Don't you know that Polish people is against America's system? People even wanted to conduct referendum, but their authorities didn't let them to do this. Previous authorities (extremely pro-west Kachinsky brothers) were pro this system, but they lost the last elections. Tusk is a new prime minister and he is going to repair relations with Russia.

    you should learn some background before advancing slogans
    I hope they do have a great relationship with Russia. I must say I am one Pole that is thrilled with the USA helping Poland get the "anti missile" in place. I must ask you, you saw Pres. Putin's reaction to the "shield", what chance do you think Poland would have had in getting this protection if the USA was not involved?

    Now that Russia had to see Poland stand up for herself have you seen the threats directed toward Ukraine?

    "On Tuesday, Vladimir Putin warned Yushchenko that Russia may target its missiles at Ukraine if it joins NATO and agrees to host a U.S. missile shield."

    RussiaToday : News : Yushchenko rules out NATO bases in Ukraine

    Has anyone been keeping track of the threats coming out of Russia or how many Country's they have kicked out? One thing about USA, if they say they will missile a target, they mean it and have given the reason.

    As far as the buzz by that Russia is doing with there planes the US guys say it's harmless and they smile at each other and wave. I bet Pres. Putin is bummed by this.

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