View Poll Results: WHo will win this war?

Voters
48. You may not vote on this poll
  • Italia

    26 54.17%
  • España

    22 45.83%
Page 3 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast
Results 31 to 45 of 63

Thread: Italy Vs Spain

  1. #31
    Patron roshan's Avatar
    Join Date
    30 Oct 03
    Posts
    211
    Spain is pretty damn poor for a western european nation.

  2. #32
    Banned
    Join Date
    10 Dec 03
    Location
    The Netherlands
    Posts
    296
    If you think Spain is poor, Portugal is even worse off!

    It's logical though, several centuries of moor rulership has certainly paid off...

  3. #33
    Regular RUSKIE's Avatar
    Join Date
    22 Jun 04
    Location
    Ft. Bragg, NC
    Posts
    92
    [QUOTE=M21Sniper]Well, first of all, Italy may have a smallish airforce, but they do have Tornado IDS, an aircraft far superior to anything Spain has.

    Well Im not to informed on the Tornado IDS but i know Spain is packing the F-18 Hornet.

  4. #34
    Former Staff Senior Contributor Ironduke's Avatar
    Join Date
    02 Aug 03
    Location
    Arlington, Virginia
    Posts
    10,132
    Quote Originally Posted by roshan
    Spain is pretty damn poor for a western european nation.
    Spain is also arid and resource-poor compared to other western European states.

  5. #35
    New Member AzzurroItalia's Avatar
    Join Date
    05 Sep 03
    Posts
    17
    Quote Originally Posted by Irondüke
    Spain is also arid and resource-poor compared to other western European states.

    Yeah, but Italy doesn't have a lot of good resources either, you know? Italy just sticks to trade, which I guess without it, Italy would pretty much be doomed.
    http://invisionfree.com/forums/Dario_Military_Forum/index.php International Military Forum

  6. #36
    New Member
    Join Date
    11 Aug 04
    Location
    Spain
    Posts
    10
    Hi guys,
    I have founded this forum by accident, and despite it is a little bit late (almost 1 year) I have read some things which made me laugh, and some others which got me a little bit angry, so, despite probably nobody is going to read my words, lets go:

    The Spanish navy is superior to the Italian navy in quality, even not in number of combat units. The “Principe de Asturias” is able to carry on 27 aircrafts (Harrier plus), vs the 16 in the Italian Giuseppe Garibaldi. Apart of the F-100 destroyers (not frigates) equipped with the AEGIS system.

    Talking about submarines, both navies have a little fleet of 8 conventional submarines, but in Spain, 6 new Scorpene class submarines (even their have air and conventional propulsion have similar attack and detection, capacities similar to a nuclear one), which put Spain over Italy again.

    Lets go with the air force. The Spanish supremacy over Italy is crushing. Yes, Italy has a higher number of aircrafts, F-104 Starfighter (retired from service in Spain 30 years ago) and a lot of Tornado (all the World saw how this machine performs during the Iraq war in 1991), ie, to pilot a Tornado in combat is a suicide for the pilots. On the other hand, Spain has more than 120 F-18 (different variants) armed with all kind of weapons (including Harpoon missiles which could destroy all the Italian fleet in a week), which could shot down the Italian air force in full. Apart from that, Spain has over 60 mirage F-1 recently modernized. The mirage F-1 are being substituted by 90 Eurofighter 2000. Italy has ordered 120 Eurofighter 2000. The difference (30 aircrafts), is irrelevant, since the gap in the Spanish air force will be filled by the 120 F-18.

    I have not objective information about land forces, so I can not talk about that.

    Finally, some comments:

    Spain has also nuclear capacity, even the Spanish government has renounced to develop nuclear weapons in the UN. If Italy, in the supposed case of war follows the nuclear path, Spain would inevitably develop our nuclear stuff.

    Italy is in the G-8. Despite in the international “official” classification Spain is the 9th economic power (consult the web), there are many voices in Spain who claim that actually Spain is the 8th, so Italy should leave the G8, and Spain should take her position. Of course, this is not going to happen, because of diplomatic and some other reasons.

    All my reasons are objective facts, you can look in the web.

    Somebody also said “Spain is a damn for the western Europe”. I just say “f*uck you”
    Maybe this gay, ops, I mean maybe this guy has seen a lot of Hollywood movies in which the Spanish children (with Mexican features) appears running naked across destroyed streets, and the people travel in 40 years old cars along ridiculous roads. Yes, the Spaniards are very used to see that crap* while eating pop corn sited on a comfortable chair in a cinema with a 150 m2 screen and surrounding digital sound.

  7. #37
    New Member
    Join Date
    11 Aug 04
    Location
    Spain
    Posts
    10
    Here some ilustratives examples:


    Spanish F-18 in an air show


    Spanish Mirage F-1 breaking to the right


    Here, Spanish Eurofigher overflying the...mmm how was it?? oh yes, the "arid and damn poor Spain". Something like that.


    One of the 4 spanish "Alvaro de Bazan" class destroyers. Look the tower to fit the AEGIS system

    Sorry, I know it took too long, but it was just to ilustrate what we are talking about. And the photos are cool hummm?

  8. #38
    Former Staff Senior Contributor Ironduke's Avatar
    Join Date
    02 Aug 03
    Location
    Arlington, Virginia
    Posts
    10,132
    Italy is in the G-8. Despite in the international “official” classification Spain is the 9th economic power (consult the web), there are many voices in Spain who claim that actually Spain is the 8th, so Italy should leave the G8, and Spain should take her position. Of course, this is not going to happen, because of diplomatic and some other reasons.
    Spain has a GDP of $885 billion compared to Italy's $1.55 trillion. Spain is not going to replace Italy in the G8 because of diplomatic reasons, "some other reasons" would include the fact that the Spanish economy is half the size of Italy's.

    Italy has a diversified industrial economy with roughly the same total and per capita output as France and the UK.
    Spain's mixed capitalist economy supports a GDP that on a per capita basis is 80% that of the four leading West European economies. (Germany, United Kingdom, France, Italy)
    http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/...s/sp.html#Econ
    http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/...s/it.html#Econ

    italics mine

  9. #39
    New Member
    Join Date
    11 Aug 04
    Location
    Spain
    Posts
    10
    Yes, you are right, I was wrong.

    Actually the country to be replaced by Spain in the G8 was Canada, not Italy. But now, searching again in Internet, I wonder why, since in the ranking Spain appears 9th with 8.1 points and Canada appears with 16.9 points in the 7th place.

    http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/eco_eco_imp

    The people who claims here that, being objective, Spain must be in the G8 instead of Canada are not this typical exultant patriots, but high prestige economists and all this stuff. Anyway I don’t understand anything about economy and I don’t want to, is a bored stuff…

    Going back to the actual topic, I still thinking that a war between Italy and Spain will be won by Spain. The military budged I think is quite larger in Italy, but it could be explained because of the large amount of scrap iron that they maintain working on, and the high homogenization in the Spanish war instruments, which make quite cheaper the maintenance. It seems to me that the Italian economy would suffer quite harder than the Spanish one:

    Spain GDP - real growth rate: 2.4% (2003 est.)

    Italy GDP - real growth rate: 0.5% (2003 est.)

    Apart from that, despite the European military industry is hard growing in the last times, Spanish military stills depending on USA military technology, which I think (but I can not prove that) USA sells cheaper to Spain, because of our Strategic geographical position in Europe. I think the strategic importance of Spain is out of discussion, if you know a little bit about geography. We need to maintain a relatively strong military because we have “critical borders”, ie, borders shared with Morocco. Italy does not have such a problem.

    Thus, Italy is not a problem for us. A Muslim massive attack could be launched across our territory. I rode a lot of crap about Spain being invaded by the Muslims and the Mahoma´s rules here and all that sh*it, but actually, the F-100 still patrolling the straight of Gibraltar, the F-18 are deployed in South Spain, the Principe de Asturias carrier is based on the very south, the S80 project is running on, and….we only receive from Africa “wet-backs” and marihuana trafficants…The main work of the AEGIS system is to detect illegal fisher ships in our waters.


  10. #40
    New Member
    Join Date
    11 Aug 04
    Location
    Spain
    Posts
    10
    “Spain's mixed capitalist economy supports a GDP that on a per capita basis is 80% that of the four leading West European economies.” ----Well, that could be possible, yes. The problem is that the cost of life in Spain is lower than the 80% of the cost of life in France, UK, Germany, and also lower than the Italian one.

    What does it mean? It means that the French people or the Brit people (I have visited both countries) does not live better than the Spanish people. Well, concretely talking about UK, I sincerely think that the average quality of life is quite better in Spain than in UK, and similar to the French one. I have not been in Italy or Germany. Some people who has visited Italy told me that the quality and style of life is very similar to Spain, but as I have said, somebody told me, I was not in Italy to assure that.

    But it also influences the external power. Of course, France, UK or Italy, have a stronger foreign policy. Nobody is going to discuss this.
    Last edited by ElCid; 13 Aug 04, at 12:31.

  11. #41
    Regular Kelu's Avatar
    Join Date
    31 Jul 04
    Location
    Moving - Germany
    Posts
    30
    Cid, you are mistaken .. compared to the way they live ... there is a huge difference .. i have been all all four .. Spain .. France .. Italy .. and i lived in the Uk for some time .. its all very different ..

    the different folks have different standards and ideals of how they live and work in their lives .. day to day ...

    And yes .. some live better than others in someparts .. some better than the other in other parts ..

  12. #42
    New Member
    Join Date
    11 Aug 04
    Location
    Spain
    Posts
    10
    Yes, I understand what you mean. I know that it is quite subjective. But I am talking about average quality of life, which is influenced by many factors, economic, cultural and also climatic ones . A consequence of that, is that many Brits, decide spent the rest of their life in Spain. On the other hand, no so many Spaniards decide to spent the rest of their life in UK. And the Spanish people who works there, try to come back to Spain as soon as possible. Even the Spanish rich dudes keep living in Spain, and don’t go to UK. This is a fact. Curiously, no many French or Italians decide to keep living in Spain, because in my opinion (of course, a subjective one), the quality of life is similar to the Spanish one.

    Anyway this is not the actual topic, so, vote for Spain in the Poll man !!

  13. #43
    Former Staff Senior Contributor Ironduke's Avatar
    Join Date
    02 Aug 03
    Location
    Arlington, Virginia
    Posts
    10,132
    Canada's economy is about 9% larger than Spain's, with 80% of it's population. Canada's economy is far more modern, including its labor force.

  14. #44
    Regular Kelu's Avatar
    Join Date
    31 Jul 04
    Location
    Moving - Germany
    Posts
    30
    decide spent the rest of their life in Spain
    thats only because most of the Brits have the money to spend, Where as alot of the Spanish public live in less than lucrative conditions, Not as many benifits of living quality prices as set in the U.K

    The brits and germans and buying up spain ... Soon there wont be a SPAIN! Just a holiday land ...

    Where as the United Kingdom keeps it borders open to European Immigrants so that they will never have a shortage of labour/factory workers .. Its pretty sneaky ..

  15. #45
    New Member
    Join Date
    11 Aug 04
    Location
    Spain
    Posts
    10
    Ironduke, as I have told you, I know that the data published on the Internet say that the Canadian economy is stronger than the Spanish one. But, as I have also told you, the people who say that actually the Spanish economy is stronger than the Canadian one are prestigious economists, and not drunken buddies celebrating the Reconquista.

    And for you, Kelu, are you sure that you have visited Spain? Or you have been in some tapas bar in Lloret de Mar?

    “most of the Brits have the money to spend” The most of the Brits who come to Spain (to those parts of Spain transformed in a zoo for third category tourism) in holidays, spent 7 days drunken, accommodated in misery hotels. The Brits who decide to keep living in Spain use to be rich Brits.

    “Where as alot of the Spanish public live in less than lucrative conditions” Definitely, you have not visited Spain out of the third category tourism zoo. But, yes, the Ken Loach films are also suitable for some parts of Spain.


    “The brits and germans and buying up spain ... Soon there wont be a SPAIN!” Yes, the tourism is important for our economy (1% of our PDG) Each rich tourist use to buy some little jail inside the tourism zoo, depending on their nationality they choose the Baleares (Germans), the Costa del Sol (Brits) or The Islas Canarias (Both).

    “Just a holiday land” Many third category tourists (mainly Brits and Germans) think so. And sometimes, the consequences are dramatic. The Spanish police, and the reasonable Spaniards like me, are very worried about the increasing xenophobic attacks against tourists in Spain, without any apparent reason. Many times, the tourist attacked don’t get robbed, or raped or something. Are just beaten up.

    “European Immigrants so that they will never have a shortage of labour/factory workers” Well, like in every countries, some unfortunate people need to get their life abroad. Talking about me, I am engineer in a Spanish company. My salary is about 2500 euros/month, variable +- 300 euros. If some Brit factory offers me at least 5000 euros, I will work in Britain to give the orders to some Brits yokels. But, what is clear, is that I will not keep living in UK. As soon as I get tired, I will come back to Spain. I have been there. I wont work there for less than 5000 euros/month.

Page 3 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Geographic Catalysts for Secularization in Western Europe
    By Ironduke in forum The Staff College
    Replies: 36
    Last Post: 07 May 07,, 08:57
  2. Italy Swapped 5 Jailed Taliban for a Hostage
    By Kassad in forum Operation Enduring Freedom and Af-Pak
    Replies: 48
    Last Post: 26 Mar 07,, 17:15
  3. Italy, Russia Move Ahead on Joint Diesel Subs
    By lurker in forum Europe and Russia
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 14 Dec 05,, 07:45
  4. Spain sticks head in sand
    By Leader in forum Europe and Russia
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 02 Jul 04,, 02:05
  5. Spain PM orders Iraq troops home
    By Trooth in forum Europe and Russia
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 23 Apr 04,, 18:16

Share this thread with friends:

Share this thread with friends:

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •