Thread: Abu Ghraib: Chain of Command

Originally Posted by Amled

It’s a question about how far up in the Chain of Command, a superior officer or non-com is responsible for the actions of the men/women under his or her command extend?

The Brigade CO. The responsibility stops with the person who is enforcing the policies associated with his echelon. I was Brigade Staff and my job was to make sure everybody directly under me knows their job and that they're doing their job. If one of my people misrepresents things to me and he knows what his job is and he understands my intent, then he is the one who would be charged and not me. However, if I did not expressed my intent clearly enough or if I didn't oversee the work being done, then I would be the one who would be charged.

In this scandal's case, the 800th MP Bde CO, BGen Janis Karpinski, was an absolute failure. She did not oversee her Staff and blame her superiors for a lack of resource and direction (BULLCRAP! What the hell is she wearing a Star For? Christmas parties?)

BGen Karpinski was relieved of command. In my professional opinion, she should have been charged with dereliction of duty and the 800 MP Bde should have been disbanded.

A Chinese proverb:

When big fish fight,
Little fish eaten!

Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers

BGen Karpinski was relieved of command. In my professional opinion, she should have been charged with dereliction of duty and the 800 MP Bde should have been disbanded.

It seems the very least that should have been done.

Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers

The Brigade CO. The responsibility stops with the person who is enforcing the policies associated with his echelon.

Thanks! A clear and concise answer.
Then all the rest of the polemic in the media, regarding blame and responsibility going right up to SecDef, is just so much media hype?

Originally Posted by Amled

Thanks! A clear and concise answer.
Then all the rest of the polemic in the media, regarding blame and responsibility going right up to SecDef, is just so much media hype?

Can I ask you not to use colours. It hurts the eyes. Standard colours would do fine. It's the message, not the presentation that works best in forums.

The 800MPBde is a sympton of a much wider problem of which SECDEF is completely responsible. That the USArmy and the USMC is ordered to do a 200,000 man job with 100,000 men.

Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers

Can I ask you not to use colours. It hurts the eyes. Standard colours would do fine. It's the message, not the presentation that works best in forums.

Will do!
But in regard to the problems faced, ýou state that it was to do with undermanning.
Couldn't it also have been that were being asked to perfom tasks (softning up detainees) that were not in line with their primary task of guarding/detaining the prisoners?

Originally Posted by Amled

But in regard to the problems faced, ýou state that it was to do with undermanning.
Couldn't it also have been that were being asked to perfom tasks (softning up detainees) that were not in line with their primary task of guarding/detaining the prisoners?

They were performing those tasks, becasue of the undemanning.

Originally Posted by Amled

But in regard to the problems faced, ýou state that it was to do with undermanning.
Couldn't it also have been that were being asked to perfom tasks (softning up detainees) that were not in line with their primary task of guarding/detaining the prisoners?

First of all, you have seperate the responsibility level. The direct taskings are done by the officer commanding of the company. The SECDEF would have no say in assigning anyone to look after any individual prisoner. If the OC of the coy deemed it appropriate and within his capabilities, he would instruct his people to do so (rightly or wrongly).

As I stated, the 800 MP Bde was a sympton, not the disease. The SECDEF ain't responsible for the sympton but he is responsible for the disease.

Using the 800 MP Bde as the example, it is a reserved Bde, meaning its people had real jobs, real families, and a real life back in the US. These were not full time soldiers who live, eat, and breathe army 24/7. They did their duty and by all accounts did it very well for the 1st year. However, instead of going home, they've got their tour extended. They're now tired. They're not being rewarded for a job well done (ie going home). They've got a fighting war now and alot more prisoners that are not helping them any. They reported so many abuses by the prisoners but nothing was done. They get frustrated and they let out steam ... and this is the result.