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Reply With QuoteOkinawa plays an important role in the spatiotemporal reaction.
U.S. won't cut troop levels in Okinawa
The Yomiuri Shimbun, June 30, 2005
http://www.yomiuri.co.jp/dy/national...30TDY01006.htm
WASHINGTON -- The United States, citing a possible surprise assault on Taiwan by China's special forces as a realistic scenario, has told Japan it will be difficult to reduce or relocate to the Japanese mainland any of its marine corps combat units stationed in Okinawa, government sources said Wednesday.
Washington has made this position on the marines in Okinawa known to the Japanese side through bilateral talks including consultations over the realignment of U.S. troops and their bases in Japan, the sources said.
The United States has about 18,000 marines stationed in Okinawa. Currently, about 3,000 of them are serving in Iraq, according to the Foreign Ministry and other sources.
The U.S. Marine Corps 3rd Marine Expeditionary Brigade, which the USMC calls its "only permanently forward-deployed brigade sized marine air ground task force or a force in readiness" is based in Okinawa.
The United States is believed to be capable of deploying the task force with amphibious assault and high intensity combat capabilities within about 24 hours in the event of an emergency in or near Taiwan.
Since Washington clarified its stance vis-a-vis Okinawa-based marines in spring at bilateral talks involving deputy foreign and defense ministers and other sessions, Japan has been negotiating with the United States over the possibility of cutting the number of noncombat marine units in Okinawa such as logistics units, totaling about 3,000 personnel, and relocating the command functions to Guam, the government sources said.
The U.S.-drawn scenario envisions China deploying a single special operations unit to Taiwan, aiming to have it seize the nerve center of the government in Taipei and control Taiwan by installing a pro-China regime.
During the crucial period of several days that would be necessary for the pro-Beijing regime to hold power in Taiwan, Washington would dispatch Okinawa-based marines to Taiwan. Taipei is located about 630 kilometers southwest of Naha, the capital of Okinawa.
The primary purpose of the rapid dispatch of marines to Taiwan would be to stop China's attempt to control Taiwan from becoming a fait accompli. Washington is said to fear a situation in which no U.S. forces could be deployed to Taiwan for several days after an emergency occurs in Taiwan and that, in such circumstances, the pro-Chinese regime would gain further ground, while the United States would eventually have lost the vital opportunity for intervention.
To stay superior to Taiwan in military terms, China has been reinforcing the People's Liberation Army's capability in the area with surface-to-surface short-range ballistic missiles and new Russian-made fighter jets and staging large-scale mock landing operations.
However, China would face a great risk of entering into a full-scale war with the United States if it resorted to full-blown deployment of its main military forces in the area, according to U.S. analyses obtained by the Japanese side.
In contrast, the use of small military units such as special forces units could enable China to avert a major war with the United States on one hand and to make it difficult for the U.S. military to intervene in Taiwan. In such a situation, the Chinese would aim to effectively put Taiwan under its control.
From a U.S. perspective, deploying U.S. troops to Taiwan in the event of an emergency there would be in compliance with the Taiwan Relations Act, which requires the U.S. government to maintain capabilities to counter the use of military force against Taiwan and take necessary measures in the event of such a development.
In the early stage of bilateral negotiations over the realignment of U.S. troops in Japan, a proposal was floated calling for the relocation of some of the combat units of the USMC troops in Okinawa to other places in the rest of Japan or abroad.
However, the intrusion into Japanese territorial waters off Okinawa Prefecture by a Chinese nuclear submarine in November led the U.S. side to have second thoughts about the relocation proposal.
As for the idea of redeploying some of the Okinawa-based marines to the mainland of Japan, Washington has already told Tokyo that it would be difficult to comply with such a plan because the expeditionary capabilities of the marine force in Okinawa must be kept intact as deterrent to China.
Okinawa plays an important role in the spatiotemporal reaction.
Not that the Okinawans care. Most of them hate the American presence there as the choicest bits of land are taken up by the American bases and they have to deal with drunks or sex-seeking American soldiers a lot. There seems to be a rapes by American soldiers in South Korea/Japan area occaisionally. But the Okinawans are sort of a forgotten part of Japan and that's why the majority of American forces are stationed there as opposed to other parts of Japan.
well when army bases in US were planned to be trimmed down,there where lots of opposition from people staying around the area bcoz that affected their lively hood badly.Originally Posted by Rani Lakshmibai
if that may be the case,then why wud okinawa be different.Especiialy if it a forgotten land,then the money US personals spend there would be very vital for the locals.Right???
Rape by US personals?R u refering to a case that hapened a few years ago.
What's the difference between people who pray in church and those who pray in casinos?
The ones in the casinos are serious.
Pure speculation.
"Above all, we must realize that no arsenal, or no weapon in the arsenals of the world, is so formidable as the will and moral courage of free men and women. It is a weapon our adversaries in today's world do not have."
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NEVER FORGET
Rape happens quite frequently, but it is usually not publicized. If you go by the fact that most rape victims don't report the crime, especially in Japan where it isn't socially acceptable to do so, then there are more rapes. Crime committed by US personnel happens at the rate of nearly one everyday in Japan, the vast majority of which is not murder or rape, but rape does happen occaisionally.
The US Armed Forces take up 20% of Okinawa's land, some of it prime farming soil. Some of the land was seized at the end of WWII and the owners were forced to give out 'leases' on the land to the Americans. It is strange how the protection of property rights is such a fundamental part of American capitalistic ideas, but it seems that it doesn't apply to non-Americans. More double standards, who's surprised?
America instituted direct martial law over Okinawa from the time of its capture in WWII to 1972, and Okinawans were in a sort of legal blackhole because Japan sacrificed them to minimize the number US bases in the rest of Japan (75% of American military facilities in Japan are on Okinawa). Though 20% of Okinawan soil is occupied by American military bases, American contribution to Okinawa's GDP has been estimated to be slightly less than 5%, making it unprofitable use of land.
Plus, the American commanders have the bad habit of ignoring Congressional orders and continued to practice artillery fire on Okinawa until well into the 90s and perhaps even today, including the use of depleted uranium shells. Apart from the noise pollution, the environmental damage maybe irreparable, not to mention health problems that may later arise. There is also heavy military aircraft activity in Okinawa, as one school teacher said that he was forced to stop teaching 3 to 4 times each period as the noise of aeroplanes taking off was too loud. Another school teacher asked if Okinawan school girls had any intimidating experiences with American troops and about a third to a half of the class answered in the affirmative.
Most bases are surrounded by clubs and brothels. And you thought that 'comfort women' was only something that the Japanese did to the Chinese.
To cap it all, Japan is forced to pay for the upkeep of American bases and sometimes, the construction of new bases. Talk about humiliating. American soldiers pay specially reduced taxes and other amounts while in Japan so taking away from their government revenue.
America doesn't plan on leaving SE Asia and inadvertently made that clear in 1997 when Defence Secretary William Cohen announced that it wouldn't remove its troops from South Korea even if the Koreas reunite without giving any real reason as to why they should continue to stay there. Silly me, and all this time I assumed that the Americans were there to prevent North Korea from killing South Korea.
Meanwhile, the Okinawans and other Japanese and South Koreans continue to suffer. Ah, I wonder how long the world will continue to suffer?
Pure speculation.
http://www.mail-archive.com/no2us_ba.../msg00000.html
http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/55a/index-mba.html
http://www.converge.org.nz/abc/pr30-113.html
I hardly think so. To me, the most humiliating aspect of it is that Japan is forced to pay for another empire to colonize them. And they are extremely luxurious quarters. You should see some of the facilities and the size of the quarters available at these bases. And I thought soldiers were supposed to rough it. No wonder these soldiers and their dependents refuse to leave these bases. Here they can live far better than they could back in America, with much less in the way of educational qualifications, all paid for by Japan.
In 2003, there was talk of shifting most of the Marines and bases to Australia because of rising anger against the Americans but when the Australians made it clear that they wouldn't pay for these luxurious quarters, the Americans dropped the idea.
Another thing that is annoying is the SOFA agreement that is standard when the Americans put troops on foriegn soil. This means that the local authorities don't have the right to arrest American troops who commit crimes. Talk about a fundamental violation of human rights, constitutional rights, not to mention a complete violation of the sovereignity of the country. The country can't arrest people who commit crimes on its soil because some loser country imposes its conditions on the country. What a violation of sovereignity?!? I wonder if Americans would like to live like that.
Even when the victims catch up to these criminals in court, it turns out the American government has secreted the criminal back to America on military transports, out of reach of the court. By the way, this secreting of criminal soldiers out of reach of the law is routine procedure.
And even when the public outrage at a crime reaches such a level that it is completely unavoidable, as was the case in Japan about 10 years ago when a 12-year-old girl was repeatedly gang-raped by three Marines, one of them nicknamed 'Tank' and weighing 119 kilos (about 260 pounds), the men were handed over to a Japanese judiciary (which works closely with the Americans to smooth over such incidents because of obvious reasons) proceeded to sentence two of them to 7 year terms and the third to 6 1/2 years. What kind of justice is this? If it was done in California, these men would have been warmed in a metal chair but the joint American-Japanese collusion is willing to bury such incidents in the interest of military and commercial activities.
This is the second major reason why I am most anxious to make sure no American soldier ever winds up on Indian soil. The first one being that I'm not particularly anxious to be re-colonized so soon.
Last edited by Rani Lakshmibai; 13 Jul 05, at 02:23.
Rani Lakshibai,
Where in Kerala are you from? Bangalore Kerala?
MOst of the Pakistanis who pretend to be Indian on forums are usually from Bangalore Kerala.
I'm not Pakistani. I am a healthy patriot of India and I'm from Thiruvanthapuram (Trivandrum), Kerala. Parents are from Chenganur and Thiruvalla, both small towns in the southern part of Kerala. And just in case that wasn't sarcasm or an attempt to make fun of the Pakistanis, Banglore is in Karnataka not Kerala.
But just because I'm Indian doesn't mean that I'm pro-American.
And to think you are the idiot that wants bases everywhere...
I didn't call for bases anywhere unless threatened as China is doing. I would much rather be left alone but when China takes a leaf out of your book I had better go on the offensive or die and I have an aversion to dying.
And even if India took bases in foriegn countries I hope it has the good sense to remember that the land is a gift and not to treat the locals like rubbish.
And how are we to know that Rani? In another thread you pointed out to me; quite rightly it must be said, that the Internet makes it possible for one to lie about ones origin.
The vitriolic anti-American sentiment which permeates almost every one of your posting would be more characteristic of a hopped-up Islamic fanatic with a hard-on towards the USA then it is with well educated Indian-Canadian.
When we blindly adopt a religion, a political system, a literary dogma, we become automatons. We cease to grow. - Anais Nin
SO, fellas...who here has personally been stationed on Okinawa?
Oh, yeah...that would be ME. Three years that I wish I could get back.
The Okinawans DO dislike us being there, but then again, they hate most everybody, Japanese included. They wish everybody would go the hell away and leave 'em all the hell alone. And I'd LOVE to, believe me.
But to specifically address the slanders of the ignorant bastard Rani L, let me say that he's incorrect on almost everything he's claimed here:
You're talking through your hat, and I for one don't appreciate your broadcast assumption that American servicepeople are rapists in any but isolated cases.
As for not having the power to arrest Americans, I can speak to that personally, and you're a moron with a tendency to speak about that which you know not. I was charged with Criminal Negligence Resulting in Injury, and you could've fooled ME that the Japanese prosecutor had no power over MY American ass. Funny, no transport seemed to be available to fly ME out of the country. In fact, I was told that if I didnt go to the prosecutor's office BY MYSELF, ALONE (which the SOFA stipulated), I would be 'surrendered' to Japanese authority and immediately jailed.
The Japanese are not paying for their own colonization, dickhead, WE, the Americans, are subsidizing their defense - you've gotten your balance of payments completely upside down. And your use of the word 'empire' is extremely inappropriate, unless you think that the most unimperial power the world has ever seen could possibly be called an 'empire', which it isn't (and that would make you an idiot - which you are).
I have lived in the quarters you speak of...after waiting more than a year in substandard but outrageously expensive off-base housing, where we couldn't afford to air condition them in the summer, nor could we get a phone installed. ROUGH IT?!? I guess it was a bit rough, up all night with an infant that had heat rash, because we spent three solid months sweltering in humidity and heat so bad that leather shoes grew mold sitting in the closet overnight.
And it was never our choice to 'refuse to leave' our little paradise - we never had the choice on when we would leave. If we had, we would've left their little tropical island to 'em, and good riddance, to get back to the 'States that YOU claim we would've had such a dramatic drop in our living standard...which is all BS.
You know, I could go on and demolish every dam' sentence you wrote, clown, because I LIVED IT, and you're just a simpering little punk that read somewhere what somebody wanted you to know, and you BOUGHT IT, didn't you?
Never mind; I've made my point. You're not worth any more effort, loser.
"The quickest way of ending a war is to lose it, and if one finds the prospect of a long war intolerable, it is natural to disbelieve in the possibility of victory."
- George Orwell
Personal attacks ?But to specifically address the slanders of the ignorant bastard Rani L, let me say that he's incorrect on almost everything he's claimed here:
Incorrect , perhaps.
But dont heap personal insults.
Bullsh*t. Rani comes in here, craps all over the thread with another one of his political rants, calls American soldiers drunks and sex-seeking rapists, and you don't think he's going to hear about it? This loudmouth little punk is one, if not the, most annoying, arrogant, ill-informed, little trolls on this entire board.
I think he got off pretty easy.
WELL SAID, BLUESMAN.
"We will go through our federal budget – page by page, line by line – eliminating those programs we don’t need, and insisting that those we do operate in a sensible cost-effective way." -President Barack Obama 11/25/2008
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