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Reply With QuotePhilippine officials: Pinoys can fish in Panatag's lagoon » Nation » News | Philippine News | philstar.comOriginally Posted by diablo49
well looks like the report has been declared false by defence officials.
Right, I certainly don't expect the Philippines to just back down, but I would expect a threat of this nature to be met with a concerted effort to upgrade their military capabilities. So far they don't really seem to be making much progress to address their deficiencies in this regard. A lot of talk, and some donated cast offs. I don't imagine that they will be much more able to deal with a similar situation a few years from now.
Philippine officials: Pinoys can fish in Panatag's lagoon » Nation » News | Philippine News | philstar.com
LOL
AFP: China TV "claims" Philippines as Chinese territory
Meanwhile the Filippinos worldwide are still preparing for a massive anti-China protest this weekend. From what I have seen in my local, it is not gonna be very big."We all know that the Philippines is China's inherent territory and the Philippines belongs to Chinese sovereignty, this is an indisputable fact," He said in the broadcast, which has since disappeared from the CCTV website but is available elsewhere on the web.
Philippine officials: Pinoys can fish in Panatag's lagoon » Nation » News | Philippine News | philstar.com
Love that link. The top ad asks how much money you can send to the Philippines for $6. That, in a nut shell, sums up the Philippines. Always and forever the beggar.
The first punishment?
Chinese Travel Agencies Suspend Trips to Philippines - WSJ.com
BEIJING—Several leading Chinese travel agents said Thursday they have suspended tourism to the Philippines as relations between the countries worsen over a standoff between government vessels around disputed islands in the South China Sea.
Update on the situation
China Confirms Ships
according to the Philippines' military there are 76 Chinese ships near the shoal... building a structure perhaps?MANILA, Philippines --- China has confirmed that it has sent government service ships to the disputed Panatag (Bajo de Masinloc or Scarborough) Shoal to provide service and administration to Chinese fishing boats as well as perform guard, management, and control duties in the area.
According to Foreign Ministry Spokesperson Hong Lei, this move was taken by the Chinese side in response to the “provocation made by the Philippines after it sent a warship to harass Chinese fishermen with force last month.”
Hong pointed out that right after the incident China made forceful representations to the Philippine side, followed by many representations to urge Manila to withdraw its vessels from the Huangyan Island (Chinese name for Scarborough Shoal) waters as quickly as possible.
“The Chinese side has also been working to address the situation through bilateral diplomatic consultation,” said the foreign ministry spokesperson in a statement sent by the Chinese Embassy in Manila through e-mail. “Yet the Philippine side is still taking provocative actions at sea, which has compelled the Chinese side to strengthen vigilance on site.”
Hong stressed that the related moves by the Philippines side have forced China to “doubt the Philippines’ sincerity in addressing appropriately the current situation.”
“We urge the Philippine side once again to respect China’s territorial sovereignty and stop all provocations, demonstrate sincerity and engage in serious and substantive diplomatic dialogue with the Chinese side,” he said.
Earlier this week, the Department of Foreign Affairs (DFA) raised its seventh diplomatic protest to the Chinese side since the start of the Scarborough Shoal incident, demanding an immediate withdrawal of Chinese ships from the area which it claimed as part of the Philippine territory.
The DFA sent a Note Verbale dated May 21 sent to the Chinese government through the Chinese Embassy in Manila after receiving reports from the Philippine Coast Guard (PCG) that there is an increasing number and pattern of Chinese government vessels and fishing vessels in the disputed area.
Based on reports received, there were five Chinese government vessels (CMS-71, CMS-84, FLEC-301, FLEC-303 and FLEC-310), and 16 Chinese fishing boats, 10 of which were inside the lagoon while six were outside on May 21.
In addition, there were 56 utility boats, 27 of which were inside the lagoon and 29 were outside.
On Tuesday, there were still 16 Chinese fishing vessels and the number of utility boats went up to 76.
According to DFA Spokesperson Raul Hernandez, the Philippines protests these actions of China as clear violations of Philippine sovereignty and jurisdiction over the Shoal and sovereign rights over the Philippine EEZ that covers the waters around Bajo de Masinloc.
He said these actions of China are also in violation of the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN)-China Declaration of Conduct on the South China Sea specifically paragraph 5 which calls the Parties “…to exercise self-restraint in the conduct of activities that would complicate or escalate disputes and affect peace and stability including, among others, refraining from action of inhabiting on the presently uninhabited islands, reefs, shoals, cays, and other features and to handle their differences in a constructive manner.”
In addition, Hernandez said the recent actions of China are also in violation of the United Nations Charter, specifically Article 2.4, which provides that “all Members shall refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Purposes of the United Nations.”
“Likewise, the increase in the number of China’s vessels in the area imperils the marine biodiversity in the Shoal and threatens the marine ecosystem in the whole West Philippine Sea,” Hernandez said. “The Philippines has documented the many instances where Chinese fishermen have unlawfully dredged the area and illegally harvested giant clams and corals.”
Other sources give 100+
This includes supposedly multiple fishing vessels, which would be a violation of their own unilaterally imposed ban.
Chinese sources give roughly 20
Last edited by diablo49; 26 May 12, at 21:32.
I do find China's stance a little odd. The U.S. has been involved in Asia going way back before WWII and definitely since defeating Japan in 1945. Let's not forget that little escapade in Korea when Chinese troops poured across the border.US troops can use Clark, Subic bases
US troops can use Clark, Subic bases
By Jaime Laude (The Philippine Star) Updated June 06, 2012 12:00 AM Comments (35)
MANILA, Philippines - American troops, warships and aircraft can once again use their former naval and air facilities in Subic, Zambales and in Clark Field in Pampanga as long as they have prior clearance from the Philippine government, a senior defense official said.
“They can come here provided they have prior coordination from the government,” Defense Undersecretary for defense affairs Honorio Azcueta told reporters after his meeting with Gen. Martin Dempsey, chairman of the US Joint Chiefs of Staff, on Monday.
Coming straight from the just-concluded three-day Shangri-La Dialogue in Singapore, Dempsey was in the country the other day for a follow-up meeting with senior defense and military officials.
Azcueta pointed out that a shift of US security focus toward the Asia-Pacific region is expected to increase with more military engagements between the two long-time allies.
Earlier, US Defense Secretary Leon Panetta announced that the US is increasing the deployment of its naval presence in the region, without necessarily establishing permanent military bases in any country in the region.
Asked if US troops as well as their warships and fighter planes would be allowed access to their former naval base in Subic, Azcueta said yes.
“That’s what we want... increase in exercises and interoperability,” Azcueta said.
Aside from offering a safe haven for ships due to its
secured location from cyclones, the former US naval base in Subic has an airfield that can accommodate civilian and military planes.
During the Vietnam war in the 1970s, Subic Naval Base, especially its airfield, was used by the US military as staging point of all its major air operations against the Vietcong.
However, in 1992 Subic Naval Base and the Clark Air Base in Pampanga, the two biggest US military bases outside mainland America, were shut down after the Philippine Senate rejected an extension of their presence in the country.
China wary of US AsiaPac plan
Meanwhile, China’s top newspapers expressed concern over the US plan, saying that such move might widen the rift between the two countries.
Although Panetta gave assurance that the plan was not aimed at containing China, whose fast-modernizing navy has kindled worries among its neighbors, the People’s Daily did not buy that.
“Opinion across the Asia-Pacific generally does not believe that the United States’ strategy of returning to the Asia-Pacific is not aimed at China; it’s there plain for all to see,” said a commentary in the paper, which reflects the current thinking in Beijing.
“The United States verbally denies it is containing China’s rise, but while establishing a new security array across the Asia-Pacific, it has invariably made China its target,” it said.
“This strategy is driven with contradictions and undoubtedly will magnify the complexities of Asia-Pacific security arrangements, and could even create schisms.”
The People’s Daily commentary was blunter than Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman Liu Weimin, who responded to Panetta’s announcement by saying China hopes the United States will respect its regional interests, and by calling the Pentagon’s steps “out of keeping with the times.”
Beijing appears keen to avoid outright confrontation with the US, but the comments in state newspapers reflected persistent worries that Washington is bent on frustrating its emergence as a major power.
“After this new (US) military deployment and adjustment is completed, the intensity of US meddling in Asia-Pacific affairs will surely increase,” the Liberation Army Daily quoted a People’s Liberation Army researcher as saying.
“This trend will increase people’s fears about the United States using its military dominance to interfere in the sovereignty of the region’s countries,” said the researcher, Han Xudong, a professor at China’s National Defense University.
China is focused on ensuring stable conditions for a Communist Party leadership transition later this year that will see the appointment of a new president to succeed Hu Jintao.
Still, Beijing and Washington have repeatedly been in dispute over US arms sales to Taiwan, which China sees as an illegitimate breakaway from its control; and the South China Sea, where China confronts a mosaic of disputes over islands and seas also claimed by Southeast Asian nations.
The US has backed a multilateral approach to solving those territorial disputes, which Beijing has rejected as meddling.
Also very gracious of Professor Han Xudong to be worried about the United States using it's military dominance to interfere in the sovereignty of other nation's in the region. Exactly which nations would that be: Japan, Taiwan, Thailand, Philippines, Vietnam, Malaysia or Indonesia all of whom we are on friendly basis with.
well consider most of those nations have their own interst in SCS which most of them has overlapping claim between each others. china as a raising power and consider SCS as its backyard of course would worry about US influence. i'm sure if china start cooperating with cuba on military level, alot people would be worry too.
One can spin it anyway they want but the U.S. has been involved in the waters of Asia going back to before the time when Perry stopped in Japan in 1854. The U.S. certainly isn't going to back out just because someone doesn't like it especially with the allies we have there. There is also that freedom of passage in the seas thing and there have been several instances where Chinese ships harassed American ships which were in recognized international waters. However, it seems that these international waters all of a sudden became someone's regional waters a few years ago as if by magic.
What I like about China as a rising power is that she is emulating the one thing she railed against for decades, imperialist hegemony. Now she is practicing the hegemony against her neighbors. It is one thing for her to say one should stay out of her internal affairs but she is now saying to stay out of South East Asia. Reminds me of empire building by the European states in the later 1800's only this is the 21st century.
The fact I am reading all this, makes me extremely worried, this is my home country that is facing off with the largest country in the world, the Philippines is extremely underfunded in terms of military strength, not to mention we only have lest than a hundred and fifty ships. Our ground forces can fight, but our equipment is that of very old weapons. I am scared, very scared.
Can you please pass da pork and flate?
Doesn't make the presence any more legit than the US being in Guantanamo. The "I've been here so long and have plenty of friends I should be allowed to still be Big Brother" argument doesn't cut it.
China, though, is shooting itself in the foot by allowing its more nationalistic elements to wag Beijing on foreign/military policy. As of now, SE Asia looks to China for business, and to the US for security, and that's because of the failure of China to project the benevolence that it has projected so well in Africa today.
Durian10
The best way forward IMHO is stop the finger pointing, setup join patrol so to enforce the fishing ban which is the only item both sides seem to agree on. Don't let a fishing issue escalated into something greater. I'd understand that some people would see this as the new cold war and will do anything to make-to-so, nothing good will come out of it.
“the misery of being exploited by capitalists is nothing compared to the misery of not being exploited at all” -- Joan Robinson
i don't think "been here long enough is a reasonble arguement" if you look at history, record of SCS are in history since Ming daynasty, would that justify claiming of all SCS, certainlly not.
so what make vietnam, malaysia, philippine & others has more claiming rights than china? history? proximity or else?? non-of those reason are holding up. there are plenty examples where proximity/history doesn't hold up to the territory claim, falkland for example. its best for china and others to settle through diplomacy and share the resource someone. china has better card so it might get a bigger slice of the pie. confrontation is not gonna help, and only increase the tension more than already is.
as for freedom of passage, china been a resource importer certainly will not do anything to affect the flow of ships, and they already said they have no intention to disrupt any commerical shipping. US worries, is about china infulence and our navy freedom of passage and surveillance in that area.
Last edited by weaponww; 12 Jun 12, at 16:11.
The fact that it has been in our strategic interest for over a century is a good enough reason in my book
So are you saying the only claiming right is going to be might makes right since you discounted all the others?so what make vietnam, malaysia, philippine & others has more claiming rights than china? history? proximity or else?? non-of those reason are holding up. there are plenty examples where proximity/history doesn't hold up to the territory claim, falkland for example. its best for china and others to settle through diplomacy and share the resource someone. china has better card so it might get a bigger slice of the pie. confrontation is not gonna help, and only increase the tension more than already is.
What seems to be their M.O. is in Africa we dangle the carrot in the form of aid and money. Makes sense since Africa is too far from home. In the South China Sea we wag the stick instead instead of dangle the carrot since this region is within out rapidly expanding Navy and so we don't need to spend money here to these nuisance countries. Calling it the way I see them playing their hand at the moment since they want only unilateral (translate: intimidate) negotiations.
Commercial only? I guess so given other previous examples.as for freedom of passage, china been a resource importer certainly will not do anything to affect the flow of ships, and they already said they have no intention to disrupt any commerical shipping. US worries, is about china infulence and our navy freedom of passage and surveillance in that area.
Mainly because the Africans have not literally started eating Chinese nationals yet. When they do, you will see the start of using force, not as a colonial measure but as protection. Somali pirates and Libya were the first time that China has deployed combat naval forces, not as an instrument of dictating terms but protecting their own.
And prior to the current naval expansion, China has paid more fines to get their fishermen released. Sooner or later, a rising power would resort to buying guns instead of paying bribes. The US also once paid bribes to the Bribery pirates and then enough was enough.
That is not to say that we should not watch China with caution but most certainly we should not be watching them with alarm.
Chimo
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