Thread: China Increasingly Stands Up To U.S

Originally Posted by subba

Not sure if that's the classical case. Regimes have brutalized their people for ages without allowing pissed off characters to form groups strong enough to challenge authority. The internet as mentioned before may be a cause of greater awareness amongst Chinese citizens. But that too the PRC is trying to control/ manage as best as possible.
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Sir, modern and pre-modern Chinese history is filled with blood. The farmers and individuals feed up with the regimes and overthown them. Even the few regimes that have sucessfully established their powers, they are under constantly struggles to maintain their authorities. It is not only the internet, but there are always a limit. No amount of propaganda can silence anger and resentment especially the angry parents.

No, no. It's the exception, not the rule. Authoritarianism always tends to control. It will try and eliminate those who try and revolt. Today the price can be nuclear war, devastation for something petty. No free society would like to invite that for something stupid like totalitarianist ideals imposed on them.

Exception, I don't think it is exception. I have seemed no regimes or nations that can last forever. The longest one I knew it might be few hundred years, but in between the revolts were constantly happenning. For example, from the establishment of Qing dynasty to its demise, I can think of at least dozens of revolution which did not include the last decade of its down fall which numbers are way higher.

Of course the costs and suffers are huge, and also there are no guarantee that newly established regimes can uphold their values such as what happened to the KMT.

I do. That's what all societies that consider individual rights and freedoms sacrosanct do. It might not be followed, but then Institutions that defend the individual vs state cases in the judiciary follow. I don't know how many people in China can file suits against PRC, but in India, every Tom and Dick files a case against the GOI. And i read somewhere the GOI loses most cases.

There are a lot of cases against PRC, but most of them are settled because of the local authorities don't want publicity. However, for the cases that can not be brought off, the tactics usually intimadation and threats. There are also petitions but only only ten percents of the case can resolve by Central government's interference. For the rest of 90 percent, their struggles
continue, however not all the cases are the government's flaws. I believe that one out of ten cases the citizens are being unreasonable, so one out of nine cases the government is at fault. I don't know the exact numbers, but I guess majority of people still can't have their issues resolve by the courts.

Constitution is the foundation of the rights, but it does not guarantee that the rights could be protected and uphold. There are many countries that have freedom and rights written in their consitution, but they still consider an authoritarian regimes. Even the Chinese's constitution has some sort of rights; therefore, constitution is just the highest law on the land, but people need to adhere and respect the laws in order for the constitution to be meaningful. The authoritaran regimes would twist the laws and constitution; consequently, constitution became irrelevant.

I agree with your above sentiments. But they apply to countries that have Institutions that uphold 'freedom charters'. They evolve. Authoritarian regimes, tend to either abrogate any challenges made to them. I am interested though in how the internet is responsible in creating more awareness among citizens under totalitarian regimes. I think that's a big challenge to them. (Thats a new game changer and would like OoE sirs and your views on that).

Evolvement is not only applied to freedom and rights, but also the living standard, good judiciary system, efficient government etc. If you understand how bureacracy and inefficient of China prior before the reform that you should understand China has evolved, but it is at the crossroad again that CCP has to choose to more forward(weakening of its powers) or stay the same(risk losing control of the nation).

Cellphones with cameras and text messages might be even more effective tools. However, it is not really how bad CCP is anymore, but the alternatives just don't live up to expectation. I mean the advocates of human rights(1989) who resides in West have lost all their credibility from the eyes of the Chinese because of their stupidities. Hopefully, new generation of mainland Chinese's human rights' advocates are smarter.

I would be glad to here what fundamentals are more important to a countries' constitution.

People's beliefs, values, and respect of the laws. If people can be bought with few dollars, then the constitution is useless.

I know. That's why i sighed.

Because we perceive things differently, so you sighed. Sir, many of the ancient civilizations are authoriatarian regimes, but their nations and civilization did evolve. Evolvement should not be stricted to only one or two things. Culture, values, beliefs are just as important.

I agree sir. Though i suspect the vulnerability is more to do with the easy information available on the internet. Would like your feedbacks and obviously also from established members like OoE sir.

OOE is much more insightful, wiser and knowledgeable than I would ever be, but I still disagree with some of things he said. However, he would hamper me if I dare to challege him.

The exchange of information in any form is the biggest challenge CCP faces, and, CCP basically loses the control of information and its propaganda's machine lost all its effectively and values. But CCP didn't lose control of the nation yet.

Look no further than the Chinese internet warriors on this very thread. They're defending the CCP.

Now I become a commie, I hope they paid me well.