China Increasingly Stands Up To U.S

**ChicChina** · 04 Feb 10, 17:08

Originally Posted by pChan

Sir,

All indications are that China would tail US as the world's top dog at some point of time in the future.

The growth of American population & its advanced state of progress would mean that the US would continue to be the top dog for a very long time but China is projected to follow US in economic power (which will invariably translate into political/military power).

As an old Chinese saying goes, maintaning moutains and rivers beats conquering them ( Da jiangshan rongyi, shou jiangshan nan)!

It is difficult for the US to MAINTAIN its top position in the world;
while it is RELATIVELY easy for China to play catch-up games!

The reason is obvious!

Just like a long-distance race, runners in the leading position in the course of the race frequently change faces!

Those who stick their heads out of the rank gain full exposure to the rest of the runners, thus vulnerable to the latter who can adapt far more flexible strategies to steal the show of the final lap!:P

**Officer of Engineers** · 04 Feb 10, 17:13

Originally Posted by ChicChina

Then we shouldn't believe anything by word of mouth?
What is the point of laws and conventions in paper governing internationl realtions?
Should we say only a fool would believe the validity of agreements signed in paper?

NFU is neither law nor a treaty. It is an internal policy that could be changed by a national directive and the authority to change that policy resides with ... the CMC.

Originally Posted by ChicChina

Not quite!
Qin collpased due to internal resistance from its peole!
USSR collapsed due to failed competition with its rivalry!

I guess you weren't born yet to know about something called bread lines and the failed crops.

Originally Posted by ChicChina

Keep buying lottories as long as you see someone indeed makes it!:P

Don't quit your day job.

Originally Posted by ChicChina

There is nothing China resembling the USSR except in name only!

The PAP and the Russian Militia both are paramilitary forces aimed at internal security. Both Beijing and the former USSR ruled by decree from their capital and both had use force without the benefit of law to enforce their authority.

Originally Posted by ChicChina

China is China, with its own unique characteristics unseen nowhere else in the world!

Now, that is a crock. If it were so, nobody else can do business with you.

Originally Posted by ChicChina

Unless you are talking about information that does no harm to national unity and social stability!

Information is information. Freedom of Information includes what can do harm to you and also false information. If the bad guy is publishing lies, then we allow them to publish their lies ... so that we can prove that they're lies.

Denying the bad guys to write lies also means that you cannot prove them wrong.

With freedom comes responsibility.

Originally Posted by ChicChina

Hope is what makes humanity different from animals!

Never owned a dog, did you?

Originally Posted by ChicChina

Wud you like to deal with a man without hope in life or someone full of vim and vilitality and hope?

At my age, I'll deal with someone who knows that 1+1=2.

Originally Posted by ChicChina

Japan is too small a place to really represent the East,I must say!

*** Shaking my head *** And WWII was what? A sandbox fight?

Originally Posted by ChicChina

Nor could the USSR be said of a real eastern country!

The Red Army that marched to Berlin spoke more Turk than Russian.

Originally Posted by ChicChina

That is vague!
Hope you can be more direct in what you mean by you are waiting for the next war.

It means that I expect the worst of man to shine through then your best.

**ChicChina** · 04 Feb 10, 17:31

Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers

NFU is neither law nor a treaty. It is an internal policy that could be changed by a national directive and the authority to change that policy resides with ... the CMC.

What substanital difference is there when leaders of one country could chose to pull out of any international treaties signed by their predecessors?

I guess you weren't born yet to know about something called bread lines and the failed crops.

I knew it through history!

Don't quit your day job.

Any lottery taker should take this piece!

The PAP and the Russian Militia both are paramilitary forces aimed at internal security. Both Beijing and the former USSR ruled by decree from their capital and both had use force without the benefit of law to enforce their authority.

The superfical things like these can go on and on
Similar sort of things could be said of the two btw China and the USA!

Now, that is a crock. If it were so, nobody else can do business with you.

No, you can do business of any sort with any party as long as you seek common interests with each other, without having to sacrifice yr principles or risk losing yr own identity!

Information is information. Freedom of Information includes what can do harm to you and also false information. If the bad guy is publishing lies, then we allow them to publish their lies ... so that we can prove that they're lies.
Denying the bad guys to write lies also means that you cannot prove them wrong.
With freedom comes responsibility.

With freedom comes responsibility, that is precisely the reason for restriction on freedom of information!

He woud be an utter idiot indeed if anyone believes that Freedom of Information includes what can do harm to himself, the harm including death/bloodshed?

**Officer of Engineers** · 04 Feb 10, 18:04

Originally Posted by ChicChina

What substanital difference is there when leaders of one country could chose to pull out of any international treaties signed by their predecessors?

The difference is that notification and therefore preparation by the other side would be allowed. Since NFU is not a treaty obligation, it means that the US (or any other state) cannot attack Chinese nuclear assets with conventional weapons only without a fear of nuclear reprisal.

Originally Posted by ChicChina

I knew it through history!

You have not seen a proud space faring country going to a beggar's bowl in a matter of years.

Originally Posted by ChicChina

Any lottery taker should take this piece!

It also means that your predictions ranks right up there.

Originally Posted by ChicChina

The superfical things like these can go on and on

The ability and will to enforce lethal actions onto one's citizens is NOT a superfical thing.

Originally Posted by ChicChina

Similar sort of things could be said of the two btw China and the USA!

American police forces don't have howitzers.

Originally Posted by ChicChina

No, you can do business of any sort with any party as long as you seek common interests with each other, without having to sacrifice yr principles or risk losing yr own identity!

In other words, your uniqueness that only exists in China means absolutely squat all in the real world.

Originally Posted by ChicChina

With freedom comes responsibility, that is precisely the reason for restriction on freedom of information!

He woud be an utter idiot indeed if anyone believes that Freedom of Information includes what can do harm to himself, the harm including death/bloodshed?

By educating himself.

**gunnut** · 04 Feb 10, 19:29

We absolutely need China to stand up to the global warming cult that has infiltrated most of the western governments. That alone could save trillions of dollars and millions of lives.

Taiwan, Dalai Lama, Iran, etc...are just small potatoes compared to the global warming hoax.

**Inst** · 04 Feb 10, 20:05

I'm just curious. China during the 00s was exporting large quantities of deflation by sending abroad low-cost goods. If sanctions were slapped on China, wouldn't that cause massive inflation in the United States as the United States loses access to low-cost products until a new source can be found? Would that be desirable as a more effective way to prime the pump than just interest rate adjustments? Or such an option be sufficiently specious that the United States government may be tempted to do so?

**xizhimen** · 05 Feb 10, 02:24

things are changing fast,check out this video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4jDbdtiJRVg

**xizhimen** · 05 Feb 10, 02:30

the very end of this video,when being asked wether chinese people complained about being repressed,Philip Rushton replied:"never heard that once.."

**RollingWave** · 05 Feb 10, 02:54

I'm just curious. China during the 00s was exporting large quantities of deflation by sending abroad low-cost goods. If sanctions were slapped on China, wouldn't that cause massive inflation in the United States as the United States loses access to low-cost products until a new source can be found? Would that be desirable as a more effective way to prime the pump than just interest rate adjustments? Or such an option be sufficiently specious that the United States government may be tempted to do so?

Seeing that the US dollar will probably deflate going foward anyway (As more and more country will start to carry more than one type of currency to spread out the risk of another US financial meltdown and the general need to start lending less and repaying more for the US government and citizens) inflation in the US (in the longer run at least)seems fairly inevitable at this point barring another gigiant technological breakthrough that creats a entire new industry (See the internet and PC industry in the 90s in general) though the economists have learned a lot in the last couple of decades on how to at least hold it within a reasonable margin.

As for the exports though, I think that's overstating the fact, China's wage level is already rising, many of the Taiwanese factories that had moved to China in the 90s and early 00s are either moving inland or moving to Vietnam all together. if China gets shutout of the world market for some reason there would certainly be a short term backlash but would hardly be the end of the world economically (for the world that is, for China it might be). most of the exports in China is highly replaceable for just about any politically stable country with at least a reasonable degree of infrastructure if the demand reopens.

For companies, the point of Chinese market is nowadays less about being "cheap" than being about "potential" in that even a modestly better off China will produce a gigantic domestic market that no major companies wants to be leftout of .

As for the stance though, I don't know, they seem to always have the same stance to me just that in the old days the same stances was simply dismissed as a poor and/or crazy communist country and nowadays it's consider a serious country. they always complained when a arm sales to Taiwan is made. They have been always in the "evil-imperialist USA" camp, just that in the older days you take them about as seriously as you would with Hugo Chavez.

**Inst** · 05 Feb 10, 10:11

The last I checked the Chinese were still capable of keep productivity growth above wage growth, so that while labor costs went up, output outpaced labor costs.

My initial question wasn't particularly intelligent since the Chinese could just retaliate by dumping the dollar. It would be essentially financial WMDs, since the Chinese would then be priced out of the European market, however.

**Merlin** · 05 Feb 10, 10:20

I think the growing tension between China and the US would not blow up into something big. Both countries do now want it.

This just means from now on there is less good-will, and relations between them would not proceed very smoothly.

China would have achieve its purpose if in future the US would tread more carefully, and give more respect in its dealings with China.

**Zeng1** · 05 Feb 10, 16:11

Originally Posted by Merlin

I think the growing tension between China and the US would not blow up into something big. Both countries do now want it.

This just means from now on there is less good-will, and relations between them would not proceed very smoothly.

China would have achieve its purpose if in future the US would tread more carefully, and give more respect in its dealings with China.

Direct confrontation with US is not in China’s best interest, especially at this moment of the history. As the article in the first post indicated that it is a time of “10 percent Chinese growth and 10 percent U.S. unemployment,". China really doesn’t want make drastic changes at this moment. It is in China’s best interest to keep this momentum going. A direct confrontation with US will diverge China from its main goal of rapid economic development.

China’s announcement of sanctioning the companies that producing weapons for Taiwan will mainly be a gesture at this time because it would not hurt US very much and it will cost China too. Boeing probably will lose some orders from China in the near future.

China is testing new ways to make low intensity confrontation with US. In the future, sanctioning the US companies may become a more and more effective tool for China if China can continue its rapid growth.

**Zeng1** · 05 Feb 10, 16:38

Originally Posted by zraver

Nothing new here, China almost enver works with the US or international community on important matters.

arms sales, intellectual property, stopping Iran, currency issues and balance of trade, human rights.....

Z,

For arms sales, you sell lots of arms to Taiwan and we sell small amount of arms to some countries that you may not like. So we are trying to get some balance here.

About intellectual property, we are inspired from the founding fathers of USA:
A U.S. Technology Double Standard? by Doron Ben-Atar - The Globalist

Stopping Iran? That is your problem not ours. You guys had stopped their democratically elected government before. Do you want to give Iranian people some explanation for that? For China, we need their oil and it is good to have someone standing up to the West in the front line so we can use them as our cards to make small bargain with you guys.

For currency issues, your wife will not be happy to see a sudden appreciation of Chinese yuan when she goes to shopping in Walmat/Target/*** American retail stores. American housewives are the great alliances for China on this issue. You get a civil war in your home when you challenge China on currency issue.

For balance of trade, when you keep buying Chinese products and refuse to sell China what we want to buy, it is your problem.

About human rights, I acknowledge that China does have lot to catch up and learn from rest of the world. But, in my view, America as such a rich nation still has its share of human right issues.

2 years ago, when we went to visit Chaco Culture National Historical Park in New Mexico and passed a little Town called Nageezi. Over 99% residents there are American Indians. Their estimated median household income in 2008 is $15,403 which is much lower than the average value in U.S. Although those guys have the human rights to voice whatever their demands are, they don’t have the human right that you are enjoying to send their kids to a good school or a good hospital when their kids get ill.

BTW, the guys we met there can only speak a couple of words of their native language but speak good English. It seems that not like in China, bilingual primary education is not mandatory in the minority areas in U.S. If I am wrong here please correct me.

Nageezi, New Mexico (NM 87037) profile: population, maps, real estate, averages, homes, statistics, relocation, travel, jobs, hospitals, schools, crime, moving, houses, sex offenders, news

In Chaco Culture National Historical Park, a major American Indian historic site, but all park rangers we met are whites to give us introduction of Native Indian history. Native Indians are doing toilet cleaning and selling Indian art crafts. Some of those native Indian art crafts even have a small label of made in China. We see the similar situation in most Indian sites in US except for those in the Indian preserves. And not to mention how backward and lack of infrastructure even today in some Indian preserves.

Do you consider those Indians I mentioned here have the same human right as you?

I hiked part of the Trail of Tears. Those Indians had a sad past on the trail. Even today, many their descendants are still very poor in this rich nation, what a human tragedy.

Trail of Tears - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Tasmanian Aborigines - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Rest In Peace, the last Tasmanian Aborigines.

**Officer of Engineers** · 05 Feb 10, 18:26

Originally Posted by Zeng1

For arms sales, you sell lots of arms to Taiwan and we sell small amount of arms to some countries that you may not like. So we are trying to get some balance here.

Small? You've armed entire armies and air forces in both Iran and Pakistan and you've given Pakistan nuclear warheads. China has far outdone the US here.

Originally Posted by Zeng1

Stopping Iran? That is your problem not ours.

Your fault. You gave Pakistan the bomb and in turn Pakistan gave it to Iran.

**Zeng1** · 05 Feb 10, 18:51

Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers

Small? You've armed entire armies and air forces in both Iran and Pakistan and you've given Pakistan nuclear warheads. China has far outdone the US here.

Your fault. You gave Pakistan the bomb and in turn Pakistan gave it to Iran.

Nuke is a special case under special situation. IIRC, when China transferred Nuke to Pakistan, China did not have the international obligation not to do so. China was under the threat of Nuclear attack.

Beside nuke, US sells far more arms to Taiwan, Japan and South Korea which China may not like. Pakistan got F-16 and Iran got F-14 not from China.

Whether it is our fault, a nuclear Iran is not our main concern/problem, it is your main concern/problem. Your selling arms to Taiwan are our main concern.

Thread: China Increasingly Stands Up To U.S

LinkBack

Thread Tools

Rate This Thread

Display

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

Similar Threads

China will be a democracy by 2020!

China: The String of Pearls Strategy

Remembering 1962 China war heros.

Obama picks Biden as Vp

US Encircling China?

Share this thread with friends:

Share this thread with friends:

Posting Permissions