China will be a democracy by 2020!

**siberialynx** · 20 Aug 09,, 05:25

This news not exactly new, the official announcement made around the end of last year. I had a lot of discussion with others, but I still find this subject and China's attempt intrigue me greatly, I just want to hear your opinions and have more dicussions to see if I would change my view again.

Quotes from the Articles:

China will be a democracy by 2020, says senior party figure
China will transform itself into a working democracy in just over a decade, according to one of the country's most influential reformers.

Mr Zhou said the government was determined to reform itself,

Mr Zhou added that civil society in China would also play an important role. "There will be many more non-governmental organisations, chambers of commerce, industry associations and other social groups. Religion should also be given a wider platform to play a positive role. We should protect religious freedom," he said.

Mr Zhou said "Don't underestimate how far the Party has come. The Party still has effective leadership and is committed to further reform."

People have been calling for Democracy and talking about reform China’s political institutions for many years but there was no overall plans on the methods and contents of reform. I am surprised and joyfully to hear this announcement.

With today China’s sustainable Economy growth, it’s about time that China push the reform of political institutions forward and become a modernization, as the Chinese state leaders have stated on many occasions that China cannot achieve modernization without democracy and China should build a socialist democratic political system.

But the reform of political institutions should be conducted under powerful control, which can avoid major social unrest and ensure progress of the reform. No reform should take the disintegration of the country as its cost, which is also the bottom line of the reform.
No matter what models are adopted, China must stick to promoting its reform for democracy and rule of law. In this aspect, China finds no existing model it can borrow and has to create a path that suits itself. The ultimate goal of the reform of political institutions is to build a democratic, wealthy and stable country, which is also the international community's expectation of China.

Many still have some doubts about the time line but I am certain that 2020 will be a major turning point of China and I am very proud of what China has been trying to achieve.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/china/3195370/China-will-be-a-democracy-by-2020-says-senior-party-figure.html

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/china/3196102/China-democracy-Reformers-words-signal-a-new-debate-on-political-reform.html

**Officer of Engineers** · 20 Aug 09,, 06:59

I strongly doubt this. While the CCP has done major reforms at the village and town level, there is no indications that responsibilities have gone to the city/province level and most certainly not at a national level.

Let's put it this way, no one has to please more than a crowd of 10,000.

**~~VietPhuong~~** · 20 Aug 09,, 07:30

Depends on how they define democracy and how many parties they want to have. All Vietnamese leaders now say Vietnamese people are enjoying a democracy but....

**Luke Gu** · 20 Aug 09,, 08:19

Depends on how they define democracy and how many parties they want to have. All Vietnamese leaders now say Vietnamese people are enjoying a democracy but....

China still have Eight political parties ，they both have their Influence on Specific groups of people。It's hard to CPC to make this decision and I don't think every Chinese want change China political system now.

**~~VietPhuong~~** · 20 Aug 09,, 08:34

Originally Posted by Luke Gu

China still have Eight political parties

I guess you want to say 8 parties, which are recognized and controlled by CPC.

Originally Posted by Luke Gu

they both have their Influence on Specific groups of people

but no influence on country politics?

Originally Posted by Luke Gu

It's hard to CPC to make this decision and I don't think every Chinese want change China political system now.

Then why not let democracy say? There is no excuse, just it is not easy for somebody to give up power while it is being hold firmly in their hands.

**Luke Gu** · 20 Aug 09,, 08:55

I guess you want to say 8 parties, which are recognized and controlled by CPC.

CPC want to use them to prove she is not a dictatorship of political parties ，their party member can't be put the key place in goverment。

but no influence on country politics?

Sorry，Chinese politics has always been mysterious ，I don't know about it。

There is no excuse, just it is not easy for somebody to give up power while it is being hold firmly in their hands.

I don't think build a democracy system is an easy work，look what happened in Ukraine。It's stupid to build it before prepared well。

**Merlin** · 20 Aug 09,, 08:58

China a democracy in 11 years? This may be the hope of the political reformer. It is too soon.

China will very slowly move towards a democracy, but this is not among its top national priorities now. It is a future ideal. And the transition has to be handled very well. Too much is at stake if it is not. They notice the experience of USSR's Gorbachev.

Perhaps 50 years time.

**astralis** · 20 Aug 09,, 15:47

i think we're all missing the qualifiers this guy is adding.

He added: "We have a 12-year plan to establish a democratic platform. There will be public democratic involvement at all government levels."

But Mr Zhou did not predict the end of the one-party state,

which is to say, intraparty democracy by 2020, which is still hard to do but not impossible (like the prospect of a multiparty democracy by 2020).

from the various readings on the subject, there is some indication the CCP is looking at "directed democracy" wherein there are city, maybe even provincial elections by 2050, while the CCP retains national control.

**siberialynx** · 20 Aug 09,, 22:18

Originally Posted by Luke Gu

I don't think every Chinese want change China political system now.

But China's political system needs to improve, the recent political system is not going to be enough for the economic growth.

China also need to move to judicial based political system with more oversight in administration.

Plus, I do really want China to have religion freedom, free press and freedom of speech.

I don't want China to have a Western style democracy or democratic election on two party like America, but there are certain value in their system that China should borrow when she develop a system that will suit her.

**gunnut** · 20 Aug 09,, 22:35

Originally Posted by siberialynx

But China's political system needs to improve, the recent political system is not going to be enough for the economic growth.

China also need to move to judicial based political system with more oversight in administration.

Plus, I do really want China to have religion freedom, free press and freedom of speech.

I don't want China to have a Western style democracy or democratic election on two party like America, but there are certain value in their system that China should borrow when she develop a system that will suit her.

Our 2-party system was not by design, directly, but ended up being this way due to our winner-takes-all system.

A European style parliamentary democracy will generate dozens of parties forming a coalition government, which isn't as stable as our 2-party system.

If there is to be freedom of expression and freedom of religion, I don't see how China could remain a single party state. Different people with different views will form their own parties to increase their voice in the society. If there is to be freedom, then they have to be allowed to form. If they aren't allowed to form "officially," then there is no freedom. You can't have it both ways.

**siberialynx** · 20 Aug 09,, 22:37

Originally Posted by Merlin

China a democracy in 11 years? This may be the hope of the political reformer. It is too soon.

China will very slowly move towards a democracy, but this is not among its top national priorities now. It is a future ideal. And the transition has to be handled very well. Too much is at stake if it is not. They notice the experience of USSR's Gorbachev.

Perhaps 50 years time.

Whether we can see all the change by 2020, I think any reform should have timetable and be carried out step by step. The results are decided by actual development.

But I agree with you, I think by 2050, China will have a mature democratic system with her own style and acceptable in the international community.

**Luke Gu** · 20 Aug 09,, 22:43

I don't want China to have a Western style democracy or democratic election on two party like America, but there are certain value in their system that China should borrow when she develop a system that will suit her.

So I am。I have a bad impressure about universal suffrage。What China need is increase Supervision of goverment，let Decision-making process come into the open。

Plus, I do really want China to have religion freedom, free press and freedom of speech.

Of course，all are needed。I hated what goverment have done on Network monitoring：can't visited many website，hard to find the information that is adverse to China。The goverment look down my IQ。

**siberialynx** · 20 Aug 09,, 23:04

Originally Posted by gunnut

Our 2-party system was not by design, directly, but ended up being this way due to our winner-takes-all system.

A European style parliamentary democracy will generate dozens of parties forming a coalition government, which isn't as stable as our 2-party system.

If there is to be freedom of expression and freedom of religion, I don't see how China could remain a single party state. Different people with different views will form their own parties to increase their voice in the society. If there is to be freedom, then they have to be allowed to form. If they aren't allowed to form "officially," then there is no freedom. You can't have it both ways.

I see, that's why China keep suppressing the freedom of expression and suspicious over religion just to secure its one party to run.

But I don't think the rule is absolute. I don't mind this one party rule, it has its advantage, like it runs much more effective, it can keep the whole China more stable, I don't want China to lose that. The challenge is how China can keep its one party rule and the advantage of it while it can also provide more liberal, free value into the system to suit the need of people and accepted by international commuity.

I guess we can only retreat to limited freedom?

But no matter what, as all the reforms mention in the articles, should continue to develop, they will only benefit the people in China.

We will see.

**gunnut** · 20 Aug 09,, 23:12

You will only have limited freedom with a 1-party system. Taiwan was a 1-party system for decades until the late 1980s. People only had limited freedom until then. However, the society was orderly. After the relaxation of the 1-party system, more political parties emerged, and more freedom for the people. However the society is less orderly.

It will be a fine line for China to walk. We definitely live in interesting times.

**siberialynx** · 20 Aug 09,, 23:21

Originally Posted by Luke Gu

So I am。I have a bad impressure about universal suffrage。What China need is increase Supervision of goverment，let Decision-making process come into the open。

Of course，all are needed。I hated what goverment have done on Network monitoring：can't visited many website，hard to find the information that is adverse to China。The goverment look down my IQ。

Well, my bad impression of universal suffrage come from how America or other Western countries like UK use it to build their own democratic puppet government in other countries or destablize the regions.

To be honest, what they did are really give bad name to democracy or universal suffrage. I develop distrust and become very suspicious over democracy because of that.

Isn't that sad? I used to be a hard core democracy believer.

But anyway, I hear that China is not going to install the "green dam" software into consumer personal computer. I think this is a little victory from Chinese people and it shows China listen to people's voice. It is an improvement. I am very happy about it.