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Thread: China will be a democracy by 2020!

  1. #46
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    PRC will eventually go down the route of the USSR and Yugoslavia. History repeats itself, always.
    I am a student of Hegel.

  2. #47
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    Steezy

    if the PRC government is that good at control people's mind and information, there won't be a Tainanmen or 80,000 large protest a year.

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by siberialynx View Post
    I totally agree on filtering out bad informations. Like something that are too violence, child porn etc. who needs those things?
    child porn is illegal in most countries including the US. However, you are looking at the wrong way -- It is just about child porn, it is about respect, the respect from the policy maker for their citizen to make the decision on what they can or can not do on their own home. LFG is a bunch of nut job and can't stand those ufkcs, but I will defend their right to kill themselves as long as they don't hurt others.

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luke Gu View Post
    Actually, I think Chinese government should not be afraid of Western media at all. You are right, it is belittling our IQ. According to my experience, the more I read the western media, the more I love China. The more bias from them, the more I support China.

    It is true. I was never that patriotic untill the western medias push me to become one. They are doing a big favour for the Chinese government. This is a true experience. I am not lying at all. And it is not only my experience, many Chinese experience the same, and more surprisingly, not only Chinese, many other different countries's people too.

    I think the non-Chinese medias are really a big failure and they don't know about it.

    P. S. astralis, I finally found a better word to use it , so I change it. OK?
    Last edited by siberialynx; 22 Aug 09, at 04:25. Reason: Change the western to non-chinese

  5. #50
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    siberia,

    I think the western medias are really a big failure and they don't know about it.
    that you use the term "western media" shows you don't know much about media outside of china. in fact, it just shows xinhui's words (which you said you learned from) went straight over your head.
    There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."Ě- Isaac Asimov

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by xinhui View Post
    child porn is illegal in most countries including the US. However, you are looking at the wrong way -- It is just about child porn, it is about respect, the respect from the policy maker for their citizen to make the decision on what they can or can not do on their own home. LFG is a bunch of nut job and can't stand those ufkcs, but I will defend their right to kill themselves as long as they don't hurt others.

    I understand the point you made. Respect the citizen's personal right and their freedom.

    But what if the citizens are out of control? Abusing their freedom and personal right? Like the porn industrial(not child porn), violence culture, uncontrolled drug issue(like marijuana)..etc?

    You know, actually, not only Chinese government talk about limited freedom, American Christian or other Christian also talk about this too. They don't like the free and wild American culture.

    I think there should be lines, but of course, for government to draw the line without hurting too much of the principle of freedom, remain respectful to personal right would not be easy.

    But it is necessary.

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by astralis View Post
    siberia,



    that you use the term "western media" shows you don't know much about media outside of china. in fact, it just shows xinhui's words (which you said you learned from) went straight over your head.
    astralis,

    It's hard for me not to use western media when I am talking about the medias that are not in Chinese, the medias that are often bias when report something about China, the medias that are holding the oppsite view, oppsite political interests of China. They can be in English, French, Germany etc. To me, "western media" is most simplest way to use, and easy to understand. I didn't know what other term or words should I use.

    To your contrary belief, I do know a lot of medias outside of China, such as BBC, Telegraph, CNN, VOA, FOX, Russianews, Wasington Post, Time, Economist, Jamestownfoundation, Christiannewstoday..etc


    To read newspapers in Chinese, I read ChinaEconomicNet(mainland), Singpao(Hong Kong), Appledailytaiwan, Zaobao(Singapore)..etc

    It is really hard to be brainwashed by Chinese government nowsdays.

    My experience about being pushed to become more patriotic by non-Chinese media is true. I can tell you which media has the most suceed on me. it is BBC.

    So, sometime I think, China really shouldn't ban BBC at all. Just let BBC do the favour for China to educate more Chinese towards their motherland.

    That's my view and my experience
    Last edited by siberialynx; 22 Aug 09, at 07:20.

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by siberialynx View Post
    I understand the point you made. Respect the citizen's personal right and their freedom.

    But what if the citizens are out of control? Abusing their freedom and personal right? Like the porn industrial(not child porn), violence culture, uncontrolled drug issue(like marijuana)..etc?

    You know, actually, not only Chinese government talk about limited freedom, American Christian or other Christian also talk about this too. They don't like the free and wild American culture.

    I think there should be lines, but of course, for government to draw the line without hurting too much of the principle of freedom, remain respectful to personal right would not be easy.

    But it is necessary.
    Anyone who trades liberty for security deserves neither liberty nor security.
    - Benjamin Franklin

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
    Anyone who trades liberty for security deserves neither liberty nor security.
    - Benjamin Franklin
    What about responsibility?

    Liberty is the prevention of control by others. This requires self-control and, therefore, religious and spiritual influences; education, knowledge, well-being.

    Quote by Lord Acton

  10. #55
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    What about responsibility? Why are you absolving your personal responsibility to the government? Nobody is forcing you to buy porn, drink, do drugs, do harm to others?

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luke Gu View Post

    Luke,

    You are right to be worried.

    I noticed something interesting in what you posted & it relates to something you said in another post. I'll reproduce the piece you quoted & highlight what I am talking about.

    Have you ever tried to apply for free blogs abroad? Then you must find some famous blog provider have already been banned, including blogger and wordpress such kind of worldwide blogs.

    Since the great fire wall of China was set up several years ago, a lot of foreign websites have been blocked by it. Considered its purpose of protecting national information sercurity, its existence is necessary and reasonable. But when it becomes the tool of keep Chinese netizen from outside world, everything turns to be ridiculous and contradicting.

    There are two voices here.
    Majority of netizen strongs against such kind of information blocking. As the development of the Internet and average education level in China, more and more Chinese especaily young people want to communicate with foreigners and show our Chinese's talent to the world. But information blocking make it become only a beautiful dream, which annoys lots of netizen indeed. As to most of them, this topic is senstive and a lack of interesting-Everybody knows it, nobody wants to talk about it because it is just wasting words.

    Of course, there are also netizen supporting the GFW. They hold an opinion that the Internet should be under proper control since a lot of harmful information are waiting for the complete open of the Internet in China. In their eyes, nowaday most of Chinese civilians are still lack of enough and indenpent thinking ability about social affairs, which make them easilly fall into the trap of foreign conspiracy. Sometimes this theory is definitely right. For example,yong people who are unbelievablely craze in the so-called korea trend or Japan trend.

    Students are always most passionate thinkers in China. And they are also eager to learn more about outsider world and also easy to be mislead. As one member of this vigoral group, I think simply blocking can not solve the problem. I believe that most students love this countries and want to make contribute to her, which can concluded from the people what are fight with anti-China foreigners in foreign websites. Our govertment should be more of confident.
    On another thread you suggested that I 'thought Chinese were stupid' for believing their government. I don't think that, but the people whose ideas appear in this article do seem to think many Chinese are stupid.

    There are two examples of that thinking here. The first is highlighted in blue and is very obvious - they are actually saying that Chinese cannot be trusted read different ideas. Ask yourself how someone might come to think that and who really benefits from that attitude?

    The other example is highlighted in red. My experience of talking to Chinese posters in the past is that they are very quick to use phrases like 'anti-Chinese' or 'racist' to describe people or ideas that they disagree with. Again, ask yourself who it benefits to persuade you that this is true? Who does it help to have you think that someone who disagrees with China's government is or some of its citizens is 'anti-Chinese'?

    I actually think Chinese are very intelligent. I think they are smart enough to choose their government, practice their religion freely and speak their minds freely. I think they are intelligent enough to view information that they want to and make up their own minds about issues.


    Win nervously lose tragically - Reds C C

  12. #57
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    Too many Chinese patriots are not CCP lovers, they are west made. Chinese population’s generalization of the west got reasons, look around, African media doesn’t often demonize China, nor does South American, or Asian, who is left. People believe western criticisms of China or CCP are not all out of their concern for Chinese people, but often out of their own interests. Like I said, the west has done a poor job in dealing with China, between the two evils of the west and CCP, many people have to look to the latter.

  13. #58
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    At first ,I put the post here is to prove the software is two-edged ,it doesn't mean I agree all the views in the post。And I don't think what I worried have some difference from you 。
    The first is highlighted in blue and is very obvious - they are actually saying that Chinese cannot be trusted read different ideas. Ask yourself how someone might come to think that and who really benefits from that attitude?
    I think you should look the Modifiers about that people and we have got the class in 1989.What they worry about is reasonable。Remember that it's in China,not in Australia,don't just put your Australian mind there。The result of Ideological penetration is serious。When all the nations Pay tribute to Gorbachev's reform,do you think you‘re not influced by the media。And I don't know how many information you can get,but you guys idea about CPC is same,it’s a truth,or just The result of publicity by your lovely media。
    Again, ask yourself who it benefits to persuade you that this is true? Who does it help to have you think that someone who disagrees with China's government is or some of its citizens is 'anti-Chinese'?
    Maybe you can ask your media what they have reported about China,when they write their news ,commentary,if they really know about China。Chinese can scan foreign news website freely,why they still hate your media which always offer Objective reporting?When they report news about China,what's the idea in their mind?I don't think there‘re some difference from you。I think most Chinese scan foreign website is to know the world outside,not fight to “Anti-China”。You also should think about why we Chinese are Sensitive to Anti-China ?Not born。At last,to me ,the persons of all nations have same IQ。So don't Boast you can get Completely objective information or ideas。
    Last edited by Luke Gu; 22 Aug 09, at 10:08.

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by middle earth View Post
    Too many Chinese patriots are not CCP lovers, they are west made. Chinese populationís generalization of the west got reasons, look around, African media doesnít often demonize China, nor does South American, or Asian, who is left. People believe western criticisms of China or CCP are not all out of their concern for Chinese people, but often out of their own interests. Like I said, the west has done a poor job in dealing with China, between the two evils of the west and CCP, many people have to look to the latter.
    That's exactly how I feel when I read the non-Chinese medias with their criticisms.

    Some people called it western propaganda.

  15. #60
    Senior Contributor Luke Gu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by siberialynx View Post
    That's exactly how I feel when I read the non-Chinese medias with their criticisms.

    Some people called it western propaganda.
    Every person is influenced by their media,and put this influce in their work and life,then give the next generation。They can't feel it especially when many famous media have some same culture。

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