Thread: China will be a democracy by 2020!

CKS still has fans in HongKong,

yesterday's Anti-PRC march in Hongkong as reported from PRC

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Really big trouble to the Central Government。When I watch the news on CCTV，they‘re enjoying the glorious parade，no one can dare to report this news to destruct the atmosphere

Originally Posted by Luke Gu

Really big trouble to the Central Government。When I watch the news on CCTV，they‘re enjoying the glorious parade，no one can dare to report this news to destruct the atmosphere

On this incident, there were only few hundreds marchers. Pro-PRC marchers were numbered in hundreds of thousand in HongKong for the Oct 1st party, but folks in China paid attend to the few hundred instead. (which is a welcome sign)

Pro-PRC marchers were numbered in hundreds of thousand in HongKong for the Oct 1st party, but folks in China paid attend to the few hundred instead.

The public media just pay attention to Pro-PRC marchers 。As for folks paid attend to the few hundred instead，I think most Chinese don't know it。
XinHui，you know many things about China，so I think you also know many
Anti-governmental organizations regard HongKong as a base In modern Chinese history，I don't think the Central Government will feel nothing about it。

China will never be a democratic nation, not with 1.3+ billion people.

Imagine how much money must be spent campaigning for candidates from different parties months before the election day, and the garbage these campaigns generate. Looking at the mess each time there's an election in Taiwan and Canada, I can't help but to think the mess will be 100x worse in China.

Chinese in the countryside are not well educated, even if CCP is kicked out of its seat, corruption will remain. Bribing the poorly-educated farmers with 100 RMB (if not less) to vote for a particular candidate is inevitable. Farmers don't care who gets elected, they see whatever that's most immediate to them. Money >>>>>> a nation's bright future. With countless counties and villages to look over, how do you ensure the votes are counted properly, and no bribery is involved?

If China does become democratic, which democratic system should it adopt? A fixed four-year term of office? Or a parliamentary system like Canada, which allows the PM to dissolve the parliament and call an election whenever he feels confident that he'll be re-elected? If China applies the former, it means its citizens could be stuck with a crappy leader for four years before they could choose someone else (eg. Chen Shui-bian). If it's the later, can you really call it democracy, when the president (or PM in Canada's case) is manipulating the nation to his advantage? If China uses a completely different democratic system, there are bound to be more problems than the tried-and-true formulae used by other "democratic" nations. With 1.3+ billion people, a single conflict could destabilize China and bring chaos to the land.

The current system in China works well. With a communist shell and a capitalist core. As China becomes more economically developed, internal changes will restructure its political system. People will have more freedom of speech, human rights, and all that craps Western nations demand from China. But for the Chinese, some form of control MUST be present, it's rooted in the 5000 years of Chinese history.

is me, or I want my cake and eat it too.

Originally Posted by Luke Gu

XinHui，you know many things about China，so I think you also know many
Anti-governmental organizations regard HongKong as a base In modern Chinese history，I don't think the Central Government will feel nothing about it。

The more the better. Believe or not , even in today's China, civil feed-back-mechanism do exist -- Remember the "green-damn internet filter"? the Chinese government backed down due to negative reactions from social groups and hi-tech companies within China.

While foreign criticism from NYT, Fox news still has no impact on the policy making process in China, but loud outcry (especially from the crying mothers and powerful business groups) from Hongkong, Macou and, to some extend, ROC do.

Originally Posted by yangxu

China will never be a democratic nation, not with 1.3+ billion people.

Imagine how much money must be spent campaigning for candidates from different parties months before the election day, and the garbage these campaigns generate. Looking at the mess each time there's an election in Taiwan and Canada, I can't help but to think the mess will be 100x worse in China.

Chinese in the countryside are not well educated, even if CCP is kicked out of its seat, corruption will remain. Bribing the poorly-educated farmers with 100 RMB (if not less) to vote for a particular candidate is inevitable. Farmers don't care who gets elected, they see whatever that's most immediate to them. Money >>>>>> a nation's bright future. With countless counties and villages to look over, how do you ensure the votes are counted properly, and no bribery is involved?

If China does become democratic, which democratic system should it adopt? A fixed four-year term of office? Or a parliamentary system like Canada, which allows the PM to dissolve the parliament and call an election whenever he feels confident that he'll be re-elected? If China applies the former, it means its citizens could be stuck with a crappy leader for four years before they could choose someone else (eg. Chen Shui-bian). If it's the later, can you really call it democracy, when the president (or PM in Canada's case) is manipulating the nation to his advantage? If China uses a completely different democratic system, there are bound to be more problems than the tried-and-true formulae used by other "democratic" nations. With 1.3+ billion people, a single conflict could destabilize China and bring chaos to the land.

The current system in China works well. With a communist shell and a capitalist core. As China becomes more economically developed, internal changes will restructure its political system. People will have more freedom of speech, human rights, and all that craps Western nations demand from China. But for the Chinese, some form of control MUST be present, it's rooted in the 5000 years of Chinese history.

I hate your idea。

Originally Posted by xinhui

The more the better. Believe or not , even in today's China, civil feed-back-mechanism do exist -- Remember the "green-damn internet filter"? the Chinese government backed down due to negative reactions from social groups and hi-tech companies within China.

While foreign criticism from NYT, Fox news still has no impact on the policy making process in China, but loud outcry (especially from the crying mothers and powerful business groups) from Hongkong, Macou and, to some extend, ROC do.

Yes，it‘s a good phenomenon。We need establish a system to supervise the government so that Government officials will not be too presumptuous 。As the economic develop I think things will go better。

Originally Posted by Luke Gu

I hate your idea。

Too bad, accept the fact.

Too bad, accept the fact.

Accept what fact？Your idea is full of that democratic isn't suitable to China and look down upon the farmers。Or maybe also have that idea ：we need time improve people's wisdom so that they won't be so fool choose a Bad dictator as their chairman。Do you have any new idea about it？All your idea I’ve heard before。

yangxu,

But for the Chinese, some form of control MUST be present, it's rooted in the 5000 years of Chinese history.

If China applies the former, it means its citizens could be stuck with a crappy leader for four years before they could choose someone else (eg. Chen Shui-bian)

seriously, which do you want? choice or control? as i recall, china's current system means you get the worst of both worlds, ie you got mao zedong screwing over china for a good twenty years before he finally kicked the bucket.

even today, with relatively competent leaders, china's legal and political systems are reaching the limits of its ability to placate the people given the rising number of mass incidents and complaints of local corruption.

Originally Posted by Luke Gu

Accept what fact？Your idea is full of that democratic isn't suitable to China

Well then explain how democracy could effectively work in a 1.3+ billion nation, genius.

Originally Posted by Luke Gu

and look down upon the farmers.

I don't look down on farmers, they are poorly educated and that's reality.

Originally Posted by Luke Gu

Or maybe also have that idea ：we need time improve people's wisdom so that they won't be so fool choose a Bad dictator as their chairman。Do you have any new idea about it？All your idea I’ve heard before。

Do I have new idea about what? Please rephrase your words more clearly, I don't understand which question you are trying to tackle here.

If you're talking about education over time, sure, it'll happen slowly. But will a large proportion of Chinese become educated by the end of 2020? No.

What happens when peasants become educated? They use that wisdom of theirs to carry out disgusting things like creating fake eggs with chemicals, adding strictly prohibited chemicals to foods, finding ways to pass QC or QA tests even though the foods aren't exactly safe to consume, and generating more cases like Sanlu Milk.

Moral values are more important than education. You can be the smartest guy in China, but if you use it for crimes, that's never going to help the nation grow, nor will it move China towards democracy. Chinese people, regardless whether they are scholars or peasants, lack the basic moral quality. If you can't deal with this basic problem, stepping into democracy will only hasten China's downfall.

Originally Posted by yangxu

Chinese people, regardless whether they are scholars or peasants, lack the basic moral quality.

Wow, a whole race of people lacking the moral 'gene'.
So yangxu, Chinese leaders must be imported from abroad if you want moral leadership then?