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Thread: Sino North Korea Relations.

  1. #16
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    They got no assistance?

  2. #17
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    If they had, they would have been able to build a better bomb. The Pakistanis had a lot of Chinese input and they managed to build bombs with yields far exceeding what we've seen North Korea do, and the Norks have still failed to master sixty year old technologies.

  3. #18
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    They Built TP2 From 50's Soviet Tech? :o

    Or did PRC help them?

  4. #19
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    The Pakistanis did have Chinese help, if that's what you mean.

    As for the North Korean, it's a home grown project. The Chinese never had any real reason to help them.

  5. #20
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    If you know Chinese culture, you would understand China had no moral base to accuse NK. Basicly, China developed nuclear weapon and missiles at the same condition as NK. Since China seen NK as friend country, according to Chinese moral standard, China can't accuse NK doing the same thing.

    There are many culture different between China and West. Borrowing money from China, US can still accuse China of lending money to them. To Chinese, it's the most shameless thing. But US said that without a blush.

  6. #21
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    The facts speak against the Chinese tolerating NK nukes. They cut off funds, electricity, and moved the 39th Group Army to the border to hold exercises that in no uncertain terms states that the Chinese are ready and capable of invading North Korea.
    Chimo

  7. #22
    Professor (retired) Senior Contributor Merlin's Avatar
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    This is what a top PLA officer just said in Singapore.

    China army general says N.Korea must denuclearise
    30 May SINGAPORE (Reuters) - A top Chinese army official called on North Korea to move to denuclearisation and asked all regional parties to stay calm after the isolated state's nuclear test this week.

    "Our hope is that all parties concerned will remain cool-headed and take measures to address the problem," Ma Xiaotian, deputy chief of general staff of the People's Liberation Army, told a meeting of Asian defence ministers in Singapore on Saturday.

    "Our stand on the issue is consistent. We are resolutely opposed to nuclear proliferation. Our view is that the Korean peninsula should move towards denuclearisation." ....

  8. #23
    Windweaver Senior Contributor snowhole's Avatar
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    Zaobao.com reports (in Chinese): China to Halt Sino-NKorea Activities

    朝鲜传又将试射导弹 中国决定暂时中断对朝交流

    Basicly ALL scheduled visits have been cancelled (this year is the 60th anniversary of diplomacy relationship between China and NK).
    Last edited by snowhole; 01 Jun 09, at 16:08.
    夫唯不爭,故天下莫能與之爭。

  9. #24
    Windweaver Senior Contributor snowhole's Avatar
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    Edit: Overstated.
    Last edited by snowhole; 01 Jun 09, at 18:05.
    夫唯不爭,故天下莫能與之爭。

  10. #25
    Windweaver Senior Contributor snowhole's Avatar
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    Some old history from wikipedia.

    Purge of the "Domestic faction"

    As the Korean War drew to a close, he first moved against the Domestic faction. While the Soviet faction had the sponsorship of the Soviet Union and the Yanan faction was backed by China the Domestic faction had no external sponsor who would come to their aid and was therefore in the weakest position. With the end of the Korean War the usefulness of the Domestic faction in running guerilla and spy networks in South Korea came to an end. Former leaders of the Workers Party of South Korea were attacked at a December 1952 Central Committee meeting. In early 1953 rumours were spread that the "southerners" had been planning a coup. This led to the arrest and removal from power of Pak Hon-yong (who was foreign minister at the time) and Yi Sung Yopo the minister of "state control" who was charged with "spying on behalf of the United States".

    In August 1953, following the signing of the armistice that suspended the Korean War, Yi and eleven other leaders of the domestic faction were subjected to a show trial on charges of planning a military coup and sentenced to death. In 1955, Pak Hon Yong, the former leader of the WPSK and deputy chairman of the WPK, was put on trial on charges of having been a US agent since 1939, sabotage, assassination, and planning a coup. He was sentenced to death, although it is unclear if he was shot immediately or if his execution occurred some time in 1956.

    The trials of Yi and Pak were accompanied by the arrest of other members and activists of the former SWPK with defendants being executed or sent to forced labour in the countryside. The domestic faction was virtually wiped out, though a few individual members who had personally allied themselves to Kim Il-sung remained in positions of influence for several more years.

    The "August Incident" and aftermath

    Kim Il-sung sent out preliminary signals in late 1955 and early 1956 that he was preparing to move against the Yanan and Soviet factions. The Twentieth Party Congress of the Soviet Communist Party was a bombshell with Nikita Khrushchev's Secret Speech denouncing Stalin and the inauguration of destalinisation. Throughout the Soviet bloc domestic Communist parties inaugurated campaigns against personality cults and the general secretaries who modelled themselves after Stalin were deposed throughout Eastern Europe.

    Kim Il-sung was summoned to Moscow for six weeks in the summer of 1956 in order to receive a dressing down from Khrushchev, who wished to bring North Korea in line with the new orthodoxy. During Kim Il-sung's absence Pak Chang Ok (the new leader of the Soviet faction after the suicide of Ho Ka Ai), Choe Chang Ik, and other leading members of the Yanan faction devised a plan to attack Kim Il-sung at the next plenum of the Central Committee and criticise him for not "correcting" his leadership methods, developing a personality cult, distorting the "Leninist principle of collective leadership" his "distortions of socialist legality" (i.e. using arbitrary arrest and executions) and use other Khrushchev-era criticisms of Stalinism against Kim Il-sung's leadership.

    Kim Il-sung became aware of the plan upon his return from Moscow and responded by delaying the plenum by almost a month and using the additional time to prepare by bribing and coercing Central Committee members and planning a stage-managed response. When the plenum finally opened on August 30 Choe Chang-ik made a speech attacking Kim Il-sung for concentrating the power of the party and the state in his own hands as well as criticising the party line on industrialisation which ignored widespread starvation among the North Korean people. Yun Kong Hum attacked Kim Il-sung for creating a "police regime". Kim Il-sung's supporters heckled and berated the speakers rendering them almost inaudible and destroying their ability to persuade members. Kim Il-sung's supporters accused the opposition of being "anti-Party" and moved to expel Yun from the party. Kim Il-sung, in response, neutralised the attack on him by promising to inaugurate changes and moderate the regime, promises which were never kept. The majority in the committee voted to support Kim Il-sung and also voted in favour of repressing the opposition expelling Choe and Pak from the Central Committee.

    Several leaders of the Yunan faction fled to China to escape the purges that followed the August plenum while supporters of the Soviet faction and Yanan faction were rounded up. Though Kim Tu Bong, the leader of the Yanan faction and nominal President of North Korea was not directly involved in the attempt on Kim he was ultimately purged in 1958 accused of being the "mastermind" of the plot. Kim Tu Bong "disappeared" after his removal from power and likely was either executed or died in prison.

    In September 1956 a joint Soviet-Chinese delegation went to Pyongyang to "instruct" Kim Il-sung to cease any purge and reinstate the leaders of the Yanan and Soviet factions. A second plenum of the Central Committee, held on September 23, 1956, officially pardoned the leaders of the August opposition attempt and rehabilitated them but in 1957 the purges resumed and by 1958 the Yanan faction had ceased to exist. Members of the Soviet faction, meanwhile, facing increased harassment, decided to return to the Soviet Union in increasing numbers. By 1961 the only faction left was Kim Il-sung's own guerrilla faction along with members who had joined the WPK under Kim Il-sung's leadership and were loyal to him. In the 1961 Central Committee there were only two members of the Soviet faction, three members of the Yanan faction and three members of the Domestic faction left out of a total Central Committee membership of 68. These individuals were personally loyal to Kim Il-sung and were trusted by him; however, by the late 1960s, even these individuals were almost all purged.

    One likely reason for the failure of the Soviet and Yanan factions to depose Kim Il-sung was the nationalist view by younger members of the party who had joined since 1950 that the members of these factions were "foreigners" influenced by alien powers while Kim Il-sung was seen as a true Korean.
    夫唯不爭,故天下莫能與之爭。

  11. #26
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    China Suspends North Korea Exchanges, Yonhap Reports (Update1) - Bloomberg.com

    China Suspends North Korea Exchanges, Yonhap Reports (Update1)
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    By Heejin Koo and Kyung Bok Cho

    June 1 (Bloomberg) -- China suspended government exchanges with North Korea after Kim Jong-Il’s regime last week tested a nuclear device and fired short-range missiles, Yonhap News said.

    China has halted plans to send officials to North Korea and won’t accept visits from there either, Yonhap said today, citing unidentified diplomatic sources in Beijing. China’s foreign ministry didn’t respond to a faxed request for comment. South Korean government spokesman Lim Jung Taek said he couldn’t confirm or deny the report.

    The move, if confirmed, would be the strongest reaction yet to North Korea’s actions by its biggest ally and trading partner. China accounts for almost three-fourths of North Korea’s foreign trade, and can cut off shipments to the impoverished country of food, fuel and luxury goods.

    China has said it “resolutely opposes” North Korea’s nuclear test, and agreed last week with the U.S., Japan and Russia to work toward a United Nations Security Council resolution censuring the regime. U.S. Defense Secretary Robert Gates, who is in Asia for a week-long tour, said on May 29 that “based on what the Chinese government has said publicly, they’re clearly pretty unhappy.”

    Dependence on China

    China accounted for 73 percent of North Korea’s global trade last year, up from less than a third in 2003, according to the Seoul-based Korea Trade & Investment Promotion Agency. It supplies 90 percent of North Korea’s oil, 80 percent of consumer goods and 45 percent of its food, according to Dong Yong Seung, a researcher on North Korean issues at the Samsung Economic Research Institute in Seoul.

    North Korea’s economic output was about $26 billion in 2007, according to the World Bank, less than 3 percent of South Korea’s $970 billion economy.

    South Korea responded to the atomic explosion by joining a U.S.-led initiative to halt shipments of weapons of mass destruction. The North then warned that any move to seize its ships would be met with military retaliation, and also fired six short-range missiles in a show of defiance.

    Gates said May 30 that the communist regime would be held “fully accountable” for the consequences of transferring nuclear weapons or material to “states or non-state entities.”

    ‘Never Tolerate’

    “The Republic of Korea will never tolerate North Korea undertaking military threats and provocation and ignoring the way to peace and dialogue,” South Korean President Lee Myung Bak said in a bi-weekly radio speech today.

    North Korea’s military ordered ships in the Yellow Sea and units guarding the country’s coast to double their ammunition stockpiles, Yonhap News reported today, citing a South Korean government official it didn’t identify. The North is also planning to launch a long-distance ballistic missile as early as this month, Yonhap said over the weekend.

    The U.S. and Japan are seeking a UN Security Council resolution that cuts North Korea’s international financial ties as well as China’s help in persuading it to abandon its nuclear ambitions.

    To contact the reporters on this story: Heejin Koo in Seoul at hjkoo@bloomberg.net; Kyung Bok Cho in Seoul at kcho7@bloomberg.net
    Last Updated: June 1, 2009 01:09 EDT

  12. #27
    Professor (retired) Senior Contributor Merlin's Avatar
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    These published condemnations of N Korea have never appeared before.

    China anger with North Korea echoes in the press
    2 Jun BEIJING (Reuters) - The top item on the Chinese website of Beijing's embassy in Pyongyang is a condemnation of North Korea's nuclear test.

    That, and a recent blast of blunt criticism of North Korea in China's state-run press, suggest the rancor that officials feel toward their communist neighbor -- anger likely to bring Beijing behind a U.N. resolution condemning the May 25 test and threatening fresh sanctions.

    North Korea's second nuclear test took place 85 km (53 miles) from China's border, and the tremors from the blast forced many schools on the Chinese side to evacuate, wrote Zhang Lianggui, a prominent Chinese expert on the North.

    He warned of catastrophe if Pyongyang mishandles a nuclear test.

    "Future generations of the Korean people will have no place of their own, and China's reviving northeast will burst like a bubble," Zhang wrote in the Global Times, a popular tabloid, on Tuesday.

    "This is an unprecedented threat that China has never faced in its thousands of years."

    On Monday, a commentary in the same paper called North Korea a "strategic burden" for China. Not the kind of language the government would have allowed earlier this year, when the focus was on celebrating 60 years of ties with the Communist North.

    Zhan Debin, an expert on Korea at Fudan University in Shanghai, wrote in the paper that the Chinese government could soon be pushed to abandon its usual reticence.

    "If this continues, China will not be able to stall international expectations by saying that North Korea doesn't listen or that we have no influence," wrote Zhan.

    If Pyongyang continues raising the international stakes, Zhan added, war cannot be ruled out, and North Korea will "either continue trapped in a Cold War or will swiftly disappear."

    Such harsh words may not have the express approval of China's leaders. But they reflect the government's growing impatience with its neighbor. ....

  13. #28
    Professor (retired) Senior Contributor Merlin's Avatar
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    The attitude of China towards N Korea has slowly change over the decades. In the early Mao years, China actively support Korea in their war against the US. At the later Mao years, after the division of Korea into N and S Korea, China help and support N Korea in building up the country.

    After the Mao years, China's main purpose in supporting N Korea is to have a peaceful stable neighborhood so that China could pay attention to its own economic reform and development.

    Over the past decade, China did not seem to mind N Korea developing its missiles and exporting them, and vetoed any UNSC resolution stopping this. This is until N Korea tested the first nuclear device. Even then, China just applied some pressure and depended on the six-nation talks lead by the US.

    It has always been the US, being the global power, that looks after the global interest. China did not see it playing a part in this process, except its own neighborhood envirnoment.

    The picture has a complete change since late 2008, since the global econimic downturn. China is now the global economic powehouse and growth engine. It can now see clearly its own economic strength and growth are very much tied up to that of the US and the world, especially on their economic recovery.

    So when China also sees N Korea actively developing and testing its own missile and nuclear technology, and actively exporting them to willing buyers to gain much needed revenue, it now sees this as a global destabiliting act. It cannot rule out the possibility that N Korea may export these technologies to al Qaeda, and to separatist groups in and around China's border. Thus it is understandable that China has to work for a stop to this.

    To illustrate how fast China's security concern has changed, I can mention the recently held Asia Security Conference in Singapore. This is the 8th annual summit of defence leaders. A few years ago Chna did not paid much attention to it. I think last year they started sending a relatively high official. This year they send their Deputy Chief of General Staff to attend.

    It is understandable they do not send the highest officer or the defence minister. The US was represented by no less than Robert Gates. He has to be the only prima donna of the summit.
    Last edited by Merlin; 02 Jun 09, at 11:02.

  14. #29
    Professor (retired) Senior Contributor Merlin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xinhui View Post
    China Suspends North Korea Exchanges, Yonhap Reports (Update1) - Bloomberg.com

    China Suspends North Korea Exchanges, Yonhap Reports

    June 1 (Bloomberg) -- China suspended government exchanges with North Korea after Kim Jong-Il’s regime last week tested a nuclear device and fired short-range missiles, Yonhap News said.

    China has halted plans to send officials to North Korea and won’t accept visits from there either, Yonhap said today, citing unidentified diplomatic sources in Beijing. China’s foreign ministry didn’t respond to a faxed request for comment. South Korean government spokesman Lim Jung Taek said he couldn’t confirm or deny the report.

    The move, if confirmed, would be the strongest reaction yet to North Korea’s actions by its biggest ally and trading partner. ....
    This below is latest news report that a Chinese official has cancelled her scheduled visit to N Korea.

    China official calls off North Korea visit
    2 Jun [AsiaOne] BEIJING, CHINA - China said Tuesday a top official has postponed a trip to North Korea, but declined to specify whether the move was in response to sabre-rattling by its Stalinist neighbour and ally.

    Chen Zhili, vice chairwoman of China's national parliament, was scheduled to have visited North Korea in June, foreign ministry spokesman Qin Gang told reporters.

    "Due to the schedule at home, Vice Chairwoman Chen Zhili has postponed her visit to the DPRK due in early June," Qin said, referring to North Korea by its official name - the Democratic People's Republic of Korea. He gave no other details.

    South Korea's Yonhap news agency earlier reported that China had cut off official ties with North Korea over the nuclear row, but Qin said ties remained "normal." ....

    Chen was to have stopped in North Korea as part of a trip that began May 19 and also took her to Australia and New Zealand, according to the website of the National People's Congress, China's rubber-stamp parliament. ...

  15. #30
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    Isn't China's problem with North Korea the spectre of a nuclear Japan? You may say that a nuclear Japan is suicide, given its population concentration, but first, China's population is concentrated on its eastern coast, and second, the LDP hasn't been very competent of late.

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