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Experts debate China's role in Somalia mission
By Zhang Haizhou (China Daily)
Updated: 2008-12-12 07:44
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/world/2...nt_7297675.htm
Chinese military strategists and international relations experts are debating whether China should dispatch its navy to the troubled waters off Somalia.
The debate was first kicked off by Major-General Jin Yinan of the National Defense University, when he told a radio station last week that "nobody should be shocked" if the Chinese government one day decides to send navy ships to deal with the pirates.
The general's views came after two Chinese ships - a fishing vessel and a Hong Kong-flag ship with 25 crew aboard - were seized by Somali pirates in mid Nov.
Jin gave no sign that such a naval mission was under immediate consideration, but he said China's growing influence has made it likely that the government might use its forces in security operations far from home.
Pirates on speedboat approach one of their mother boats docked near Eyl, Somalia in this framegrab made from a November 24, 2008 TV footage. The enclave of Eyl is the homeground of pirates who are wreaking havoc on the waters off the coast of Somalia. [Agencies]
"I believe the Chinese navy should send naval vessels to the Gulf of Aden to carry out anti-piracy duties," he said. "If one day, the Chinese navy sends ships to deal with pirates, nobody should be shocked."
"With China being a major world economy, it's very difficult to say that security problems across the world have nothing to do with us," Jin said.
While the military strategist is urging an active deployment, other scholars think the government should be cautious before a decision is made.
The Chinese military vessels should go there "only within the UN framework," said Pang Zhongying, a professor of international relations with Renmin University of China.
Since July, the UN has adopted three resolutions urging the international community to respond to the piracy problem off Somalia; the EU started an anti-piracy mission earlier this week in response to the UN resolution.
"Non-intervention is the principle of China's foreign policy, which has not changed," Pang said. However, China is trying to "play a more constructive and responsible role in international conflicts and other crises," he said.
"China is now trying to balance its old principle and the new reality," he added.
China has never dispatched any troops for combat missions overseas. The Chinese army personnel joining UN peacekeeping missions are engineering and medical staff, or police, apart from peacekeepers.
"Non-intervention is in the process of slow change," Pang said, adding China is trying to cooperate with international organizations such as the UN and the African Union (AU) in solving regional and international conflicts, Pang said.
Pang added that he also had some concerns over the Chinese navy's capability.
"I don't think the Chinese navy has the capacity to counter unconventional threats far in the ocean," he said, adding supplying and refueling in the Indian Ocean are key challenges.
However, some military strategists do not agree.
Professor Li Jie, a navy researcher, said the Chinese navy has proved that it is capable of such missions.
In 2002, two Chinese vessels spent four months on a global tour, the country's first.
"Also, the UN resolutions mean that such deployment is legitimate," Li said, noting that rampant piracy is a problem not only for other countries, but also for China.
"I think we should go there," he added, acknowledging that command and communication will be challenges for such multi-national missions.
"But the mission can also be good training for the Chinese navy," he said.
However, Professor Jin Canrong of Renmin University told China Daily: "I think we should not dispatch navy ships there unless we have to do so."
Sending naval vessels to the waters off Somalia may raise some concerns and provide ammunition to "China threat" demagogues, he said.
Instead, joining a prospective UN peacekeeping force is a better choice.
astralis, I know....
Interesting. Didn't China participate in a UN peacekeeping mission in Africa recently? The first time ever China was involved in UN peacekeeping I think. I want to say Sudan but that is probably wrong.
Cambodia
Chimo
Some of the points in the article that really stuck out in my mind
Questions for our resident China-watchers:Originally Posted by xinhui
It is my impression that the PLAN is keenly interested in becoming a true blue-water navy that can range out across the Pacific, showing the flag, increasing national influence and demonstrating capabilities to potential adversaries.
If that is correct, is the PLAN capable of such missions, especially with regard to logistics? I see they have some impressive looking UNREP ships (the Qiandaohu-class), but are they capable of sustaining a months-long deployment in real-world circumstances?
It's one thing to send several warships out on goodwill tours, but it's another thing entirely to send them out to distant shores, into potential combat, especially against an unconventional foe.
Personally I think that the PLAN should seriously push for a deployment of this nature to Somalia. (Not that they asked me....)
The operational experience and international prestige benefits would be priceless, to say the least.
I posted the following sometimes back....hope it helps.
From Janes's Nov 2008's update
Recent and Current Operations TOP
In recent years the PLA has decided to contribute to United Nation's led peacekeeping missions in order to bolster China's leadership credentials within the body, but also to give its officers and soldiers increased international exposure.
As at September 2008, China was contributing 1,824 personnel to the following missions:
* 13 military observers in the United Nations Mission for the Referendum in Western Sahara (MINURSO);
* 218 troops and 16 military observers in the United Nations Organization Mission in the Democratic Republic of the Congo (MONUC);
* 318 troops and one military observer in the African Union/United Nations Hybrid operation in Darfur (UNAMID);
* 556 troops, 10 police and four military observers in the United Nations Mission in Liberia (UNMIL);
* 439 troops, eight police and 14 military observers in the United Nations Mission in the Sudan (UNMIS);
* 10 police and three military observers in the United Nations Integrated Mission in Timor-Leste (UNMIT); and
* Four military observers in the United Nations Truce Supervision Organisation (Middle East) (UNTSO).
I hope I don't make fool out of myself, but here is my take.
PLAN currently has three fleets, two brown and one green (south sea fleet), so any long range foreign deployment will reduce the south sea fleet by one flag ship, one or two support DDG/FFG and two tankers. PLAN can afford to let one taskforce go, but that will leave the South Sea fleet with only one battle ready task force.
if CMC wants, PLAN can perform a month long Somalia tour as PLAN conducts monthly supply missions to their South China garrisons already and in 1998, they went to Indian Ocean to escort their newly bought Kilo back home with a refuel stop at Singapore .It's one thing to send several warships out on goodwill tours, but it's another thing entirely to send them out to distant shores, into potential combat, especially against an unconventional foe.
Last edited by xinhui; 12 Dec 08, at 09:14.
From PLAdaily
PLAN South Sea Fleet conducted an anti-terrorism drill at high sea on Nov 17 with a rescue attempt against a hijacked “Cargo ship”
11月16日，南海舰队某猎潜艇大队与驱逐舰、导护艇、特种部队等兄弟单位，在海上进行联合反恐演练，部队 协同作战与维稳处突能力得到锤炼和提高。图为特战队员机降被劫持“货轮”的情景。 中国军网发 管伟华摄 （责任编辑：孙礼）
(Photo of a SpOps team descending on a "hijacked cargo ship")
Don't worry, I already got that covered in my post.
Ahhhh! Very interesting...I would assume then that at least one of those tankers would be a Qiandaohu-class, to provide the non-fuel needs of the task force.
Further question, if known: Excluding fuel, I wonder how long a PLAN Guangzhou-class or Sovremenny-class destroyer can continually stay at sea before needing replenishment of food and other consumables.
It would be pretty symbolic though, if they do pull it off, a mini-force projection for PLAN. And the P.R. effect would be huge. China has good relations with many African countries and that is a sphere that has been neglected somewhat by the US. It is conceivable that they would and could do this. Imagine a crew from a Saudi oil tanker or a Greek cargo ship being rescued from Somali pirates by the Chinese navy...that would make the 10 0'clock news.
hero,
that info is a few years out of date- the chinese have not been altogether popular in africa as of late and the US is ramping up operations considerably with the establishment of AFRICOM.China has good relations with many African countries and that is a sphere that has been neglected somewhat by the US.
The human mind cannot grasp the causes of phenomena in the aggregate. But the need to find these causes is inherent in man’s soul. And the human intellect, without investigating the multiplicity and complexity of the conditions of phenomena, any one of which taken separately may seem to be the cause, snatches at the first, the most intelligible approximation to a cause, and says: “This is the cause!"
-Leo Tolstoy
War and Peace
Sov DDG has a range of 3,900 miles and PLAN FFG (Jianghu) class has a standard South China Sea patrol of 30 days, FFG559 did a 75 days patrol in 1998 (photo in this post is a poor sailor from that patrol) and 247 days out at sea. This is off topic, but one of the reasons PLAN keeps all those old Jianghu class FFG around is that they are so cheap to operate in south China sea
Most likely to be that of Danyao and Nanyun class, they can also take the Fuchi (Qiandaohu) as well. Anyways, I posted the entire PLAN tanker fleet on WAB back in March 10, 2008, enjoy.
China's Navy
China's Navy
Fuchi class (REPLENISHMENT SHIPS) (AORH)
IN SERVICE: 2
Name No Builders Laid down Launched Commissioned
QIANDAO HU (ex-Fuchi) 886 Hudong Shipyard, Shanghai 2002 29 Mar 2003 30 Apr 2004
WEISHAN HU 887 Guangzou Shipyard - June 2003 2004
Displacement, tons: 23,000 full load
Dimensions, feet (metres): 585.6 × 81.4 × 28.5
(178.5 × 24.8 × 8.7)
Main machinery: 2 SEMT-Pielstick diesels; 24,000 hp (17.9 MW); 2 shafts
Speed, knots: 19
Range, n miles: 10,000 at 14 kt
Complement: 130
Cargo capacity: 10,500 tons fuel, 250 tons of water, 680 tons of ammunition and stores
Guns: 8-37 mm (4 twin).
Radars: To be announced.
Helicopters: Platform for 1 medium.
Last edited by xinhui; 12 Dec 08, at 19:13.
Thanks astralis,
Yeah I remembered AFRICOM after I posted this, plus with Obama's election and his ties to Kenya US-African relations should be closer.
A visiting German navy general said here Monday that his country would like to cooperate with China in containing pirates and other nontraditional threats.
"It is widely recognized that terrorism is a big challenge confronting the world. But pirates, which we believed had perished, are still wrecking havoc," German Navy Inspector General Wolfgang Nolting told Chinese Defense Minister Liang Guanglie.
Liang responded by reviewing the latest hijacks by Somali pirates in the Indian Ocean.
Somali pirates have drawn worldwide attention by capturing several vessels this month, including the Saudi supertanker, the Sirius Star.
"I think navies of Germany and China should work together to fight against pirates," Nolting said.
Liang said, "We should pay more attention to the non-traditional security threats."
But the two gave no details on how the two navies would cooperate in this field.
In their half-hour talk in Diaoyutai Guesthouse in downtown Beijing, Liang hailed the China-Germany military ties as "increasingly deepening," citing frequent high-level visits, smooth dialogue and deeper cooperation in specialist fields.
Liang said China would like to make the most of military ties with Germany.
Nolting arrived in Beijing on Sunday. He will also visit eastern China's coastal cities of Shanghai and Qingdao.
This is off topic, but it will be interesting to see how the folks in Sudan view that development
his ties to Kenya US-African relations should be closer.
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