Remembering 1962 China war heros.

**Officer of Engineers** · 27 Nov 08,, 21:22

Cactus,

My point here is that no one have gone asking the Chinese. The data is there and I don't doubt a lot don't correspond to each other but at least now, there are names, dates, units involved and can paint a much more realistic picture.

Was the battle a complete collapse or did the Chinese have more than their share of luck?

The google translation is not the best, in fact, extremely poor but at least we can put names, dates, and places together.

**lmar** · 28 Nov 08,, 03:47

Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers

Cactus,

My point here is that no one have gone asking the Chinese. The data is there and I don't doubt a lot don't correspond to each other but at least now, there are names, dates, units involved and can paint a much more realistic picture.

Was the battle a complete collapse or did the Chinese have more than their share of luck?

The google translation is not the best, in fact, extremely poor but at least we can put names, dates, and places together.

Better late than never, we will try to get the realistic picture with
the avilable sources

**Officer of Engineers** · 28 Nov 08,, 05:54

We? Or You?

I've given you Chinese sources. It is time for you to do the work.

**lmar** · 28 Nov 08,, 06:07

Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers

We? Or You?

I've given you Chinese sources. It is time for you to do the work.

when i write "WE" that means we all indians. i hate using the word "YOU" in any of the descussion. it's like pointing towards somebody's mistake

**Officer of Engineers** · 28 Nov 08,, 06:10

The point is are you going to do the work to educate yourself? I've done all I can in given you easily available Chinese sources, even going through google for you. Are you going to work through the articles ... or are you going to wait for an Indian national who can read Chinese to do the work for you?

I've given you a gift, son. Even if you don't know what to do with it, you should know you have it and refer to it anytime your Indian compatriots come up with terms like "overwhelming Chinese force" or "inflicting heavy Chinese casualties."

**lmar** · 28 Nov 08,, 06:32

Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers

The point is are you going to do the work to educate yourself? I've done all I can in given you easily available Chinese sources, even going through google for you. Are you going to work through the articles ... or are you going to wait for an Indian national who can read Chinese to do the work for you?

I've given you a gift, son. Even if you don't know what to do with it, you should know you have it and refer to it anytime your Indian compatriots come up with terms like "overwhelming Chinese force" or "inflicting heavy Chinese casualties."

yes. we have it from both indian and chinese sourses. is there any link from neutral sourses?

**xinhui** · 28 Nov 08,, 09:00

Originally Posted by lmar

yes. we have it from both indian and chinese sourses. is there any link from neutral sourses?

Normally, I don't like to discuss the 1962 war because, as a lesson learned, no good will ever come to it. The emotion is too high for many folks and thousands of flaming arrows will be coming to my way in no time. But today is an important American holiday, I am going to make an exception.

There is only one person in the West that can be view as an expert on the military aspect of the war is Col (R) Larry M Wortzel, His "PLA Operational Principles and Limited War -- The Sino-Indian War of 1962" was one of the most detailed study of the war that covered units, movements, tactics from the PLA side, As a Defense Attaché in Beijing he had access directly to PLA official unit history from both PRC and ROC.

He also wrote another article about the 1962 war in US Army War college's "PLA at 70" monograph. Those two places would be a great place for you to start.

If you want more of a political history from the "west', there are available, all you have to do is google it.

As a side note, although his politic is very much from the right (of the China threat school). However, He has my respect as a military historian and a professional

LARRY M. WORTZEL is Vice-President for Foreign Policy and Defense Studies for the Heritage Foundation and a member of the U.S.-China Security Review Commission. He retired in November 1999 as a colonel in the U.S. Army after 32 years of military service. During his military career, he served in infantry and intelligence positions in Morocco, Korea, Thailand, Singapore, and China. Dr. Wortzel also served in the Office of the Secretary of Defense, the U.S. Pacific Command, and on the Department of the Army Staff. His last position before retiring was as Director of the Strategic Studies Institute at the U.S. Army War College. Dr. Wortzel is the author of two books on China and has edited and contributed to two other books, as well as many journal articles and monographs. Dr. Wortzel earned a B.A. from Columbus College, Georgia, and an M.A. and Ph.D. in Political Science at the University of Hawaii.

**xinhui** · 28 Nov 08,, 09:08

To follow up with OOE's point, the 1962 war is a none war in both the western and Chinese POV, I disagree with that notion, but that is life. For example, Andrew Scobell's "China's use Of Military force-- Beyond the Great Wall and the Long March, consider one of the best work in this topic does not include any chapter related to the 1962 war.

Dr. Andrew Scobell is associate research professor at the Strategic Studies Institute, U.S. Army War College, and adjunct professor of political science at Dickinson College. Born and raised in Hong Kong, he joined the Strategic Studies Institute in 1999 and is the institute's specialist on Asia-Pacific security. Prior to his current position, he taught at the University of Louisville, Kentucky, and Rutgers University, New Jersey. He is the author of China's Use of Military Force: Beyond the Great Wall and the Long March (Cambridge University Press, 2003), and numerous other publications. Dr. Scobell holds a Ph. D. in Political Science from Columbia University.

**xinhui** · 28 Nov 08,, 09:09

Originally Posted by lmar

Better late than never, we will try to get the realistic picture with
the avilable sources

we shall see.

**lmar** · 29 Nov 08,, 05:02

Originally Posted by xinhui

To follow up with OOE's point, the 1962 war is a none war in both the western and Chinese POV, I disagree with that notion, but that is life. For example, Andrew Scobell's "China's use Of Military force-- Beyond the Great Wall and the Long March, consider one of the best work in this topic does not include any chapter related to the 1962 war.

Dr. Andrew Scobell is associate research professor at the Strategic Studies Institute, U.S. Army War College, and adjunct professor of political science at Dickinson College. Born and raised in Hong Kong, he joined the Strategic Studies Institute in 1999 and is the institute's specialist on Asia-Pacific security. Prior to his current position, he taught at the University of Louisville, Kentucky, and Rutgers University, New Jersey. He is the author of China's Use of Military Force: Beyond the Great Wall and the Long March (Cambridge University Press, 2003), and numerous other publications. Dr. Scobell holds a Ph. D. in Political Science from Columbia University.

My humble requst to my senoir indian members of this forum, can you pls check this info posted from chinise members.

**xinhui** · 29 Nov 08,, 05:25

if you are really into "facts" "realistic picture" and "neutral sources" what is nationality have to do with it?

**lmar** · 29 Nov 08,, 05:31

Originally Posted by xinhui

if you are really into "facts" "realistic picture" and "neutral sources" what is nationality have to do with it?

In any argument we need to get the views from both sides. pls do not take my request in -ve sense.

**Officer of Engineers** · 29 Nov 08,, 05:35

What arguments? Take any skirmish. Line up the dates and places and see who's who from both sides.

**lemontree** · 29 Nov 08,, 11:34

Originally Posted by lmar

very informative from chinese side... need some more info from their side about what they think the exact objectives to attack india

The causes of the war should be seen from two view points:

- Tibet
- Road Xinjiang - Tibet that cuts across Aksai Chin. The Chinese had to intrude as the terrain did not allow a round about road through the mountains. It is the fastest way to connect western Tibet to Xinjiang.