Thread: Attack on Chinese Border Post

I am not suggesting anything.

The world is merely experiencing it!

Ray,

Thank you for your kind words.

Yeung,

Sorry, I don't quite understand how you can call yourself Christian without believing in the literal truth of the Bible.

Why is this not the case for most religions? Are you talking about the actual pracitce or the 'content' of religions? I know there are many not so religious Christians (and believers of other religions), but this doesn't mean the Christian religion allows you to call yourself a Christian without believing in the literal truth of Bible.

and

Are you suggesting that Islam is 'fundamentally fundamentalist' and China is going to suffer from terrorist attacks?

All Christians believe in the truth of the Bible. Many however also believe
that that the spirit of a given passage might not be found in its 'literal' contents. Many are also open to the idea that Christianity is composed of an underlying message that can be refined to reflect the changes in the human understanding of what is 'good' over time.

Fundemantallists, too, believe in the truth of the Bible. But what differentiates from the others is that its approach to the Scripture is 'literal'; a fundemantalist believes that the meaning of the Gospel is exactly the sum of its words and the matter is not open to dicussion or interpretation. If you are interested in the topic, I would highly suggest Martin Luther's exchange with Desiderius Erasmus on Free Will and the meaning of 'the hardening' of the Pharaoh in the Book of Exodus.

As a Syrian scholar of Arab history told the audience in a lecture, the west's persistence in ascribing the term 'fundementalist' to Al Qaida betrays a deep-seated ignorance about Islam, because Islam's theology is explicitly fundementalist. As I have said, if Quran says something is forbidden, then it is forbidden. Quran is the word of God and Muhammad is God's last Prophet, so the Quran is literally the last word. No new revealations are possible. The only latitude allowed in Muslim legal scholarship is the deeds of Mohammad and arguement by analogy, both of which are disputed by the more dogmatic Wahhabists as heretical.

I am not a Christian. But I have extensively studied the history of Islam and Christianity, and I have been in a church many times, and I have befriended many Christians of all confessions. I, too, have been in Mosque, though I have never been in at prayer. I have three close friends who are Muslims, one of them, a bisexual, confided in me that reconciling his religiousity with his personal identity was one of the greatest intellectual challenges he had ever faced. I have been to Turkey, and it certainly suggests that modernization is not an insurmountable challenge to Islam, but the process is probably going to be strenuous and protracted, especially when theology is dictated by Mullahs who live in theocratic petro states.

As for terrorism, I did not say that China is going to suffer from terrorist attacks. It already is.

Tuesday, April 25, 2006
Uighur Youth With No Future In Xinjiang
The young men studying at the Islam College in Urumqi, near China's western border, sit ramrod straight listening intently to their teacher.
Most hope one day to become imams in the many mosques of the Muslim-dominated Chinese region of Xinjiang.
"I believe in Islam, I came here to deepen my faith, to learn more," said 24-year-old, Bolo Alashankur.
"I learnt about Islam at home, from my family, but now I've come to the college for formal training," he said.

But learning about Islam is difficult here. Almost 2,000 miles from the capital, Beijing, the curriculum of the Islam College must be approved by the ruling Communist Party. Imams must attend political education camps - the authorities even dictate which version of the Koran should be used.

CHINA'S UIGHURS

Ethnically Turkic Muslims, mainly in Xinjiang
Made bid for independent state in 1940s
Sporadic violence in Xinjiang since 1991
Uighurs worried about Chinese immigration and erosion of traditional culture

Human rights groups accuse China of conducting a campaign of repression against its Muslim minority, especially in Xinjiang. Despite a promise of religious freedom guaranteed in the constitution, in practical terms, few are at liberty to practise their faith as they would like.

China's war on terror is concentrated on Xinjiang. The province borders eight separate countries. Foreign fighters, including members of the Taliban, have been captured here.

At a press conference, Communist Party boss Wang Lequan warned that the province was under attack.

"In Xinjiang the separatists, religious extremists and violent terrorists are all around us - they're very active. We deal with these criminals using the law. In China, endangering national security is the number one crime. We have to crack down on it severely," he said.

Excuse

But others have accused China of muddying the waters between religious extremism and religious freedom. The authorities are just as worried about the threat from within as from outside.

"Fear is definitely pervasive in Xinjiang," said Nicolas Becquelin of pressure group Human Rights in China.

"People from the Uighur community are very much at risk of being arrested, detained, tortured or sentenced to labour camps for anything the government equates to separatist feelings, or for holding religious activities," he said.

Uighurs are doing anything they can to make a living - there's no alternative

Anonymous Uighur

At the central mosque in Urumqi, the sights and sounds are not entirely Muslim. The old mosque was knocked down a few years ago and replaced by a handsome brick building. But when it was rebuilt, it came with the addition of a shopping mall. Now the faithful pray above a KFC and next to a Carrefour supermarket.
Those around the mosque are afraid to speak. Uighur men and women have been imprisoned for simply speaking to foreign journalists.
The BBC was monitored by undercover policemen for most of our time in Xinjiang. We slipped away briefly and spoke to a Uighur who was unhappy about the redevelopment.
"It really isn't appropriate," he said. "We come here to worship - but sometimes we can't hear our prayers because of the music and singing from the bazaar."
Life is difficult for Muslims in Xinjiang, he said, warning that he could get into trouble for speaking to the BBC.
"It's getting more and more difficult for us to earn money now. Uighurs are doing anything they can to make a living - there's no alternative," he said.
China wants to focus on the smiles
Northern Xinjiang is rich and fertile, and it has oil. But Uighurs enjoy little of its riches, especially since China has flooded the province with Han Chinese. In 1950 Uighurs were 94% of the population - they are now less than half.
This ethic dilution is denied by officials such as Yahfu Wumar, director of Urumqi's Religious and Ethnics Affairs Committee.
"There's very little difference in the ethnic balance between now and the early 1950s," he said.
"The central government established the "Go West" policy to bridge the economic gap between east and west China. It has brought entrepreneurs here - but it certainly isn't an issue of moving Han people to Xinjiang," he said.
One of the few places where Uighur culture is celebrated in Urumqi is at a folk performance for tourists. But it is another fabrication - the gaudy costumes include glittering cowboy hats and most of the songs are sung in Chinese, not Uighur.
Beijing says its priority is to stop religious extremism and terrorism in this far-off province.
But critics say it is criminalizing an entire race of people, and that this repression will only radicalize those who want the freedom to pray and the chance to share in China's new-found riches.
source BBC

Xinjiang News

This is a blogspot and hence personal views.

It, however, indicates the feeling of the people.

It gives a perspective how the Uighurs view Islam and what that can lead to!

Originally Posted by Ray

This is a blogspot and hence personal views.

It, however, indicates the feeling of the people.

It gives a perspective how the Uighurs view Islam and what that can lead to!

I wonder how you can conclude that this source indicates the feeling of the Uighurs......

Originally Posted by Triple C

Ray,

Thank you for your kind words.

Yeung,



and



All Christians believe in the truth of the Bible. Many however also believe
that that the spirit of a given passage might not be found in its 'literal' contents. Many are also open to the idea that Christianity is composed of an underlying message that can be refined to reflect the changes in the human understanding of what is 'good' over time.

Fundemantallists, too, believe in the truth of the Bible. But what differentiates from the others is that its approach to the Scripture is 'literal'; a fundemantalist believes that the meaning of the Gospel is exactly the sum of its words and the matter is not open to dicussion or interpretation. If you are interested in the topic, I would highly suggest Martin Luther's exchange with Desiderius Erasmus on Free Will and the meaning of 'the hardening' of the Pharaoh in the Book of Exodus.

As a Syrian scholar of Arab history told the audience in a lecture, the west's persistence in ascribing the term 'fundementalist' to Al Qaida betrays a deep-seated ignorance about Islam, because Islam's theology is explicitly fundementalist. As I have said, if Quran says something is forbidden, then it is forbidden. Quran is the word of God and Muhammad is God's last Prophet, so the Quran is literally the last word. No new revealations are possible. The only latitude allowed in Muslim legal scholarship is the deeds of Mohammad and arguement by analogy, both of which are disputed by the more dogmatic Wahhabists as heretical.

I am not a Christian. But I have extensively studied the history of Islam and Christianity, and I have been in a church many times, and I have befriended many Christians of all confessions. I, too, have been in Mosque, though I have never been in at prayer. I have three close friends who are Muslims, one of them, a bisexual, confided in me that reconciling his religiousity with his personal identity was one of the greatest intellectual challenges he had ever faced. I have been to Turkey, and it certainly suggests that modernization is not an insurmountable challenge to Islam, but the process is probably going to be strenuous and protracted, especially when theology is dictated by Mullahs who live in theocratic petro states.

As for terrorism, I did not say that China is going to suffer from terrorist attacks. It already is.

Thank you for your explanation.

Just want to know your view on Islam in XinJiang.
Why are Muslims from other ethnic groups receiving much better treatment than the Uighurs? If they are all fundamentally fundamentalist, then.....?

Ray can draw his conclusions because, from an academic point of view, this is primary material and thus inherently more accurate than second or third hand accounts?

Why are Muslims from other ethnic groups receiving much better treatment than the Uighurs? If they are all fundamentally fundamentalist, then.....?

Your point being? That the Uighurs are not zealots who are quite willing to make suicide attacks, that their POV is not informed by their religion?

Originally Posted by Triple C

Ray can draw his conclusions because, from an academic point of view, this is primary material and thus inherently more accurate than second or third hand accounts?



Your point being? That the Uighurs are not zealots who are quite willing to make suicide attacks, that their POV is not informed by their religion?

My point is that Muslims from different ethnic groups are treated differently. There must be something on top of religion.

Originally Posted by yeung3939

I wonder how you can conclude that this source indicates the feeling of the Uighurs......

I conclude nothing.

I am just indicating what some human beings beyond the pale of officaldom feel about the issue.

Originally Posted by yeung3939

My point is that Muslims from different ethnic groups are treated differently. There must be something on top of religion.

I think so.

That is what some people call - God!

Originally Posted by Ray

I conclude nothing.

I am just indicating what some human beings beyond the pale of officaldom feel about the issue.

""It, however, indicates the feeling of the people.

It gives a perspective how the Uighurs view Islam and what that can lead to!""

You did conclude something.
Too much speculation.

Originally Posted by yeung3939

""It, however, indicates the feeling of the people.

It gives a perspective how the Uighurs view Islam and what that can lead to!""

You did conclude something.
Too much speculation.

Birth and Death are conclusive.

The gap between these two are speculative!

Originally Posted by Ray

I think so.

That is what some people call - God!

There is another thing called politics.
If Islam is fundamentally fundamentalist and therefore anti-CCP, then the CCP will treat all Muslims equally harshly.

That is China's problem.