Singapore vs. Malaysia

**Ironduke** · 25 Dec 03,, 09:01

Defending the Lion city
Tabloid Malay Mail report on Tim Huxley's book following Malaysian ministers' rejection of author's tipping easy victory for Singapore in a war.
Jan 14, 2003

Since the 1980s, Huxley wrote, the military balance moved decisively in the favour of Singapore, making an offensive strategy - the so-called pre-emptive strike - a realistic option for the island republic.

By the 1990s, Singapore's Armed Forces (SAF) quantative and qualitative strength over the Malaysia Armed Forces (MAF) became well-entrenched.

In 2000, the potential mobilised strength of the SAF stood at 350,000 personnel.
By comparison, the MAF totalled only about 145,000 personnel, although 105,000 of these were regulars.

Singapore's army formations, most importantly, the three combined arms divisions - each with integral armour and artillery, and a rapid deployment division - are coherent and highly offensively-oriented, in contrast to their Malaysian equivalents, which during
the 1990s remained dispersed thinly throughout the peninsular and were only beginning to develop combined arms capabilities.

Huxley (in"Defending the Lion City") said the SAF's crucial strength lies in its armoured force and air force.

The Singapore Army operates some 120 upgraded Centurion main battle tanks and some 350 AMX-13SMI light tanks. It's air force has more combat aircraft than Malaysia and Indonesia combined.

Together with tanker and airborne early warning aircraft, the Singaporean combat aircraft could wreck havoc in a conflict.

Huxley stated that the SAF with it highly educated soldiers, high-techology equipment and synergistic relations among the three services yielded important military advantages over Malaysia or any other potential adversaries.

He said the economic recession in Malaysia in 1986-1987 and 1997-1998 was an obstacle for its armed forces modernisation and re-equipment.

He said the plans to build major bases in Johor, one each in Gemas and Mersing, would probably strengthen the defences in the south.

What if war broke out between Malaysia and Singapore: Bombs away!

[Following scenario is quoted from Pg 58, A Scenario of War with Malaysia.]

IT'S 4am.

The early morning calm is suddenly shattered by the deafening screams of low-flying jets.

Seconds later, Kuantan air base is rocked by multiple explosions, followed by "secondaries" as Malaysia's air assets in aircraft shelters and revetments are obliterated.

Klaxons blaring, pilots are scrambled to whichever aircraft that are still air-worthy, but it's useless. The runways had been cratered.

In the ensuing confusion, reports start streaming in. It seems that this is not an isolated case.

Butterworth checks in and reports that its entire complement of F/A-18D Hornets are now smoking, twisted hulks out on the tarmac.

And the entire Third Division which has overall command over Johor and Malacca had also been annihilated.

The National Power Grid had not been spared, plunging the entire country in darkness, adding to the chaos and confusion.

Reports also indicated that the Ministry of Defence building in Jalan Padang Tembak, Kuala Lumpur, had been hit by at least six GBU-31 1,000-pound JDAMs (Joint Direct Attack Munitions).

Even the KLCC had been struck with such ferocity that only the Maxis Tower was left standing.

On Bukit Nanas, only a blackened stump is left of what used to be the Kuala Lumpur Tower.

Down in Johor and Malacca, the situation is much worse. A torrent of armoured vehicles, including tanks, are hogging all the roads linking Johor Baru to Muar and Kota Tinggi, disgorging armed soldiers who took over all the towns.

Senai airport, captured in a pre-dawn attack was being used by the helicopters and planes taking part in the on-going offensive.

On the North-South Expressway, main battle tanks and armoured fighting vehicles together with towed artillery with fighter jets and attack helicopters providing close support were going north, destination unknown.

Reports of troops landing from helicopters were coming in from all over Johor, from Mersing to Muar.

By noon, Johoreans find themselves under Singapore military rule.

If you think the scenario described above are wild imaginings of The Malay Mail writers, think again.

The scenario, in less graphic form, was written by a British scholar, Tim Huxley, in his book Defending the Lion City: The Armed Forces of Singapore.

It was published in 2000 as part of a series which examine the military capabilities of Asian countries by Australian publishing company Allen & Urwin.

Huxley's book, which is available at local bookstores, offers a fascinating look at a little-known but effective military organisation.

Among others, it brought up issues that were almost never discussed - including sensitive questions of war plans with Singapore's neighbours.

Drawing on Israeli and other foreign experts and using only their country's limited resources, the Singaporeans have moulded a technologically sophisticated and large military that is capable of striking far from the island State.

Given the country's absence of natural resources and lack of strategic depth, said Huxley, it's a remarkable achievement.

He said while the Singapore military has not yet been tested in real combat, few observers doubt its professional ability.

In the second chapter of his book, Huxley points out that Malaysia was the most likely adversary to Singapore, with Indonesia second.

He gave a detailed picture of how the Singapore Armed Forces (SAF) capabilities were tailored to meet such adversaries.

Huxley wrote: "While it is clear that the SAF is sufficiently flexible in terms of its organisation, equipment and doctrines to be useful in wide national security contingencies, its capabilities have been refined with specific contingencies in mind - above all, the possibility of war with or in Malaysia."

Singapore defence planners have also planned a war with or in Indonesia.

Huxley said such plans have been played in SAF staff college exercises since the 1960s.
He said that from the Singapore viewpoint, a war with Malaysia could be triggered due to communal conflict in Malaysia which resulted in the disruption of water supply from Johor.

Singapore, according to Huxley, have not dropped plans for a pre-emptive strike.
Huxley further states: "To make intervention possible, the SAF would need to disable the Malaysian Armed Forces (MAF) with a brutal and fearless pre-emptive offensive or at least retain such capability as to execute such an attack after absorbing an initial
(Malaysian) onslaught.

"Probably in conjunction with electronic attacks on the MAF's communication and sensors (such as radars), the SAF would first attempt to establish air superiority by devastating the Malaysian air force - in the first few hours of any conflict - before mounting further air strikes against other military targets.

"Singapore's army would then seize the initiative on the ground with commandos - infiltrated by air and sea - and helimobile Guards unit securing the Malaysian side of the Causeway in Johor Baru and the Second Link bridge in Gelang Patah.

"Combined armed forces, most importantly, armoured battle groups equipped with tanks and other armoured fighting vehicles, would then cross into Johor and rapidly advance into the Peninsula.

"They would be supported by Guards battalions and transport helicopters, strike aircraft and attack helicopters."

The Singaporean Navy will also play a vital role by landing troops on Johor's coast while keeping the sea-lanes around the island from any blockage by the Malaysian navy.

**Officer of Engineers** · 25 Dec 03,, 16:23

As the US is finding out, they can kill but can they stay?

**troung** · 15 Jan 04,, 21:40

My thoughts…

Well Singapore would really have to strike first and early if they wanted any chance to survive and not just win. Militarily Singapore has a larger and better equipped air force and navy as well as more tanks and APCs then the Malays but they lack the population to take control of a large track of Malay territory for any period past a few months with a UN sponsored withdrawal.

The RSAF uses a good number of F-16C/D Block 52 (42) fighters which are armed with the AIM-120C, AIM-7M, AIM-9L/M and could soon get (if not already) the Python 4, the best Malay fighter is the MiG-29N of which there are one squadron with the R-77E (not yet confrimed that they have the missile), R-27R and R-73E. The older F-16A/B Block 15s (8) also serve in the RSAF for training and strike missions. Singapore also has E-2C AWACs (4) and KC-135 tankers of which Malaysia has no AWACs and 2 KC-130B tankers. For a strike force Singapore could use the F-16C/Ds (the D have extra avionics in the spine), F-16A/Bs and the A-4SU Sky Hawks (70 of which fitted with F-404 engine) Malaysia has 7 F/A-18Ds (the 8th is damaged and will be repaired one day) and 18 Hawk 208 attack trainers. So Singapore has a huge advantage in being able to launch a first strike and take control of the air very fast. Both nations use the F-5E/F/RF but Singapore has 48 ones which have been upgraded to allow use of the AIM-120C and soon the Python 4 while Malaysia’s 12 have no received an upgrade and don’t fly as much.

Singapore has the AH-64 and currently Malaysia lacks a purpose built attack helicopter.

Malaysia is buying MBTs but only 40 or so PT-91s compared to Singapore’s over 100 upgraded Centurions. Singapore also has over 350 AMX-13s that have been upgraded while Malaysia has around 40 Scorpions that are inferior. Singapore also has over 400 M-113 APCs and several hundred Boinx IFVs which allow for fast movement and mobile firepower. For artillery Singapore has a larger number of domestic 155mm howitzers which it can field but Malaysia has the long range G-5 from South Africa which is a very effective gun. Malaysia has the Brazilian ASTROS but Singapore is currently in talks for the American MLRS.

On the squad level both sides are comparable in individual firepower with Malaysia using the AUG and Singapore using the SAR-21 both of which are a bull pup assault rifle. Malaysia has recently bought a thousand or so RPG-7s to increase firepower at the squad level. Malaysia also uses the Milkor grenade launcher at the squad level to add to fire power for the units. Both nations make use of the FN MAG and have a SAW (Malaysia uses the M-249 and Singapore the Ulitimax). For heavier anti armor support they both use similar missiles such as the TOW, AT-4, Milan, M-72 and others.

At see Singapore is stronger with several French F-3000 frigates and a good number of missile corvettes and boats. They also have SSKs while Malaysia I still in talks for some. Singapore has a better naval lift ability as well with the Endurance LPDs. While Singapore could likely not blockade Malaysia (no chance really) it could deny the Royal Malaysian navy the use of the water near Singapore.

If Singapore launched an attack it would likely be to preempt the Malays and wait for a UN cease-fire. I would say the best bet for Malaysia would be to try and inflict losses by going into the jungle and making the almost road bound Singaporean army fight for the roads. If Malaysia were to fight a fixed battle Singapore’s air force would inflict heavy losses with LGBs, AGM-65s and dumb ordinance. Singapore also has a better defense industry and builds (cannons, rifles, IFVs, ships) or upgrades (fighters, tanks) much of its equipment at home.

I guess some of the other guys can agree or disagree with me I am no expert. Please respond.

**Ironduke** · 18 Jan 04,, 22:24

I can't really say I know too much about the situation except that there is a sort of arms race going on between the two.

Does anybody know whether Malaysia has territorial ambitions regarding Singapore? Or vice versa?

What are the alliances? Do Indonesia, Brunei, Thailand, China, Australia have any interests/alliances here?

**Jay** · 19 Jan 04,, 21:42

Singapore was a part of Malaysia when both of em got independence, later on they seperated as a nation state!

Singapore imports water from neighbhours and as its oulined most prob the war would start bcoz of that. Other than that Malaysia and Singapore are economic rivals. Malaysia is rivaling Singapore port as well as their Airport. They both are vying for the tourists, seperately.

The only consolation is the population is more or less similar in both these countries...except less no of malays in Singapore.

Again Malaysia has a bigger clout with Islamic countries, while Singapore is buddies with USA.

So if at all a far is fought, it would mostly be pre-emptive in nature and this scenario is very well possible.

Australia is another rival for both Malaysia and Indonesia.
China, Malaysia, Indonesia all have territorial disputes...Sprately Islands.

**Ironduke** · 19 Jan 04,, 21:44

The thing I was wondering more is who, specifically, are Malaysia allies in the region, and who are Singapore's?

**Jay** · 19 Jan 04,, 22:28

Malaysia may allign with Indonesia. I cant think any others who will support Malaysia, coz they all know US is behind Singapore.

**Ironduke** · 20 Jan 04,, 02:55

Primus, Singapore's new 155mm Howitzer

THE Singapore Armed Forces yesterday unveiled the latest addition to its arsenal - a 155mm artillery gun that moves like a tank.

Called the Singapore Self-Propelled Howitzer 1 or Primus, the locally developed guns will give the army's combined arms divisions more firepower, speed and accuracy.

This has been achieved by combining the armour and mobility of a tracked vehicle, like a tank, with the firepower of a 155mm gun, the largest calibre artillery piece in the SAF.

The decision to develop the Primus was made after a survey of some of the world's best self-propelled guns from the United States, Britain, Japan and Russia found them either too heavy or too wide for local terrain, said the Defence Ministry.

Chief Artillery Officer Lim Teck Huat said: 'We made a market survey in 1995 and 1996 and considered the operational guns around the world. Well, they had a lot of firepower, were highly mobile and very survivable but they were also very heavy, mostly around 50 tonnes, and we needed something lighter.'

The SAF needed the Primus to weigh less than 30 tonnes and be no wider than 3m, for it to move across bridges and through vegetation here.

By April 2000, the first working prototype was rolled out, using a vehicle chassis adapted from the US Army's Bradley Infantry Fighting Vehicle and M109 self-propelled gun.

After another three years of testing, the guns were unveiled by Defence Minister Teo Chee Hean yesterday.

The result, Mindef says, is the creation of 'arguably the lightest and most responsive self-propelled howitzer in its class'.

Before the Primus, the SAF's stable of 155mm guns - the FH-88 and FH-2000 - usually had to be towed by trucks.

Towed guns require more time to get into action and at least eight gunners to operate, compared to the Primus which only needs a crew of four and is ready to fire in less than a minute.

Beneath its tough armour-plated exterior is a host of sophisticated on-board computers that control navigation and automate the handling of ammunition.

Altogether, the Primus is the SAF's 'most technologically complex product designed to date', added Mindef.

At its commissioning yesterday, there were no formal military parades. Instead, the ceremony took place out in the field at Kranji Camp, where six guns swung into action in a demonstration that showcased its ability to 'hide, shoot and scoot'.

The first artillery unit to receive these guns is the 21st Battalion, Singapore Artillery.

The unit started using them early this year and is gearing up for a battalion live-firing exercise code-named Thunder Warrior. This will take place in New Zealand early next year.

After seeing the guns in action, Rear Admiral (NS) Teo said: 'It's an example of the cooperation between the Defence Science and Technology Agency, the SAF and Singapore Technologies Kinetics that we're able to develop something which can fit our unique needs.'

http://www.universalmetropolis.com/m...?articleid=417

**troung** · 20 Jan 04,, 04:47

"Malaysia may allign with Indonesia. I cant think any others who will support Malaysia, coz they all know US is behind Singapore."

Doubt it. Singapore supplies Indonesia with military equipment so they have a lot better of relations on a milirat level then do Malaysia and Indonesia.

Last year they supplied SF-260M trainers to the TNI-AU and a couple ships for the TNI-AL.

Plus seeing as Singapore flies the F-16, F-5E and A-4 is is little wonder why TNI-AU F-16s, F-5Es and A-4s flew through the sanctions.

**Ironduke** · 20 Jan 04,, 05:12

For such a small state, Singapore sure has a powerful military.

I just posted pictures of their new self-propelled howitzer in the Land Warfare forum. Indigeneously designed and produced, so I've read.

**troung** · 21 Jan 04,, 04:44

Yes Singapore builds its own assault rifles (SAR-80, SAR-21), light machine guns (Ultimax), and artillery (FH-88, Primus), IFVs (Boinix). Singapore has upgraded domestically its AMX-13s, Centurions, M-113s, A-4 Sky Hawks, F-5E/F/RF Tiger IIs. Singapore has license built Milans, FN-MAGs, M-16A1s, and Armburst anti tank weapons. And offers an export upgrade on the F-16A/B called with Falcon One which features a new cockpit, a HMS and a new radar (fitted for APG-66 (v) 2, M-2032 or Griffo 2000).

So in terms of what they can build they are in much better shape then Malaysia.

**Ironduke** · 21 Jan 04,, 23:17

Thanks for the info man

**Sparky** · 24 Jan 04,, 15:25

http://www.sgforums.com/?action=foru...&forum_id=1164

Link to the Singapore military english forum.

**~~eMGee~~** · 24 Jan 04,, 18:35

Originally posted by troung
Yes Singapore builds its own assault rifles (SAR-80, SAR-21), light machine guns (Ultimax), and artillery (FH-88, Primus), IFVs (Boinix). Singapore has upgraded domestically its AMX-13s, Centurions, M-113s, A-4 Sky Hawks, F-5E/F/RF Tiger IIs. Singapore has license built Milans, FN-MAGs, M-16A1s, and Armburst anti tank weapons. And offers an export upgrade on the F-16A/B called with Falcon One which features a new cockpit, a HMS and a new radar (fitted for APG-66 (v) 2, M-2032 or Griffo 2000).

So in terms of what they can build they are in much better shape then Malaysia.

Yep, and yet so much smaller than Malaysia.

Does anyone, for example, remember that speech of the ex-PM of Malaysia? For all the jews on this board (but also Americans), it wasn't a pretty one.

If a war would ever break out between Malaysia and Singapore, I'd support Singapore without hesitation. Singapore's social system is also amazing. (If you work, you get everything, if you don't... well :D)

**Ironduke** · 26 Jan 04,, 03:33

Yeah, Matahir said some stuff about "Jews ruling the world by proxy" and that their "18 million cannot resist our 1.3 billion forever".

eMgee, I've been to Holland, but didn't discuss much of politics with people, except for a Moroccan clerk at a youth hostel who asked me what I thought about the whole Israeli/Palestinian issue out of the blue.

What is the general perception in the Netherlands about the Israeli/Palestinian conflict?