Singapore vs. Malaysia

**RSS Formidable** · 01 Jun 07, 15:46

well, speaking from a Singaporean point of view, i'll certainly say that we will win in a conflict with malaysia. but to remain objective, i'll guess that any military objective the SAF has in Malaysia will probably be the water pumping station in Johor. once we secure the water supply, there will be no more threats from Malaysia about cutting off our water. besides, we are less reliant on them now than then. Newater!

**Bigfella** · 01 Jun 07, 16:07

Singapore has used the Israeli model with good reason - small, affluent & well educated states whose potential enemies are much larger.

Unfortunately Singapore also faces some of the same problems as Israel - lack of strategic depth & the need to win a qiick victory.

The real danger to Singapore is that Malaysia or Indonesia simply decide to grit it out. Both nations have significant areas that are effectively beyond the reach of Singapore's military. Mobilization for Singapore has potentially serious economic consequences if it drags on.

Singapore might be able to march all the way to KL, but then what? If Malaysia decides not to give in there is only so long that Singapore can maintain an occupation. Singapore needs outside nations (esp. the US) to step in & force some sort of settlement.

Singapore might win a 6 day war, but a 6 month one could be a serious problem.

**RSS Formidable** · 01 Jun 07, 16:22

yep. i agree. our national economy can definitely not sustain a prolonged occupation in Malaysia. 85% of the soldiers in the SAF are NS men or reservist. this means that if the men were to go to war, majority of the working men cannot work and thus cannot contribute to the economy. in the long term, we will starve. the women are simply not enough to keep the economic engine running.

although the US is our ally, i cannot forsee them interfering in any conflict that we could have with malaysia. the US has its hands full in Iraq and Afghanistan. i suppose they will just use the UN and issue sanctions and stuff.

**Bigfella** · 01 Jun 07, 23:34

Originally Posted by RSS Formidable

yep. i agree. our national economy can definitely not sustain a prolonged occupation in Malaysia. 85% of the soldiers in the SAF are NS men or reservist. this means that if the men were to go to war, majority of the working men cannot work and thus cannot contribute to the economy. in the long term, we will starve. the women are simply not enough to keep the economic engine running.

although the US is our ally, i cannot forsee them interfering in any conflict that we could have with malaysia. the US has its hands full in Iraq and Afghanistan. i suppose they will just use the UN and issue sanctions and stuff.

Formidable,

I didn't make myself clear. I wasn't talking about US military intervention, but rather diplomacy - pressuring Malaysia to resolve the issue at hand. As I think it is safe to assume that Singapore is not going to argue for any Malaysian territory, it is entirely possible that diplomatic pressure from the US could help bring such a conflict to an end.

I would also expect the larger ASEAN nations such as Indonesia, the Phillippines & Thailand to pressure both sides to end the conflict. Important nations on the edge of the region such as Australia & India might also get involved.

**xrough** · 04 Jun 07, 06:41

I think whatever conflict between Malaysia and Singapore will not lead to "war"..I agree that ASEAN members would talk about it and try to solve the conflict since they move to be a friendly and integrated ASEAN..

**hailer** · 12 Jul 07, 08:26

Originally Posted by eMGee

Yep, and yet so much smaller than Malaysia.

Does anyone, for example, remember that speech of the ex-PM of Malaysia? For all the jews on this board (but also Americans), it wasn't a pretty one.

If a war would ever break out between Malaysia and Singapore, I'd support Singapore without hesitation. Singapore's social system is also amazing. (If you work, you get everything, if you don't... well :D)

So you will support Singapore invasion to Malaysia because of speech of by ex-PM of Malaysia? Are you encouraging a war and terrorising another country because of this issue? And what are other necessary reasons that make Singapore internationally accepted to launch strike to Malaysia?

**hailer** · 13 Jul 07, 06:54

Originally Posted by RSS Formidable

well, speaking from a Singaporean point of view, i'll certainly say that we will win in a conflict with malaysia. but to remain objective, i'll guess that any military objective the SAF has in Malaysia will probably be the water pumping station in Johor. once we secure the water supply, there will be no more threats from Malaysia about cutting off our water. besides, we are less reliant on them now than then. Newater!

Originally Posted by Bigfella

Singapore has used the Israeli model with good reason - small, affluent & well educated states whose potential enemies are much larger.

Unfortunately Singapore also faces some of the same problems as Israel - lack of strategic depth & the need to win a qiick victory.

The real danger to Singapore is that Malaysia or Indonesia simply decide to grit it out. Both nations have significant areas that are effectively beyond the reach of Singapore's military. Mobilization for Singapore has potentially serious economic consequences if it drags on.

Singapore might be able to march all the way to KL, but then what? If Malaysia decides not to give in there is only so long that Singapore can maintain an occupation. Singapore needs outside nations (esp. the US) to step in & force some sort of settlement.

Singapore might win a 6 day war, but a 6 month one could be a serious problem.

RSS Formidable & Bigfella,

In my opinion, Malaysia will never cut the water supply. The worst, Malaysia probably just wait and see until the agreement expired. And Malaysia is not desperately to strengthen their military capability, because Singapore has no reason to launch strike against Malaysia. Malaysia may increase their military capability any time if they want too. Malaysia military strategy is just ‘defensive’ not ‘offensive’. Singapore learnt from Israel, but Malaysia also learnt from the conflict that involved Israel. And Malaysia always wants to be looked internationally as less capable then Singapore and just need to follow closely behind Singapore.

Malaysia has never threat or never says to cut the water supply. As long as no cutting of water supply, Singapore does not have strong reason to launch strike against Malaysia, But I think, with the advice of Israel, Singapore has an intention to definitely invade Malaysia territory to take over local resource such as water supply, huge land to support their industries, and ports in Johor to support their existing port. So Singapore will attack Malaysia not because of the threat by Malaysia, but because of local resources. And I guest, many Singaporeans and non-Singaporean will happy if Singapore attacking Malaysia. That is just my opinion from a Malaysian point of view.

The question – Is this invasion is a violent behavior? Will UN support or against this action?

‘Malaysian for Peace’
‘Visit Malaysia Year 2007’

**AceofproZ** · 13 Jul 07, 07:18

Hello All,

I just came across this forum while researching on a scenario war between malaysia and singapore.

Firstly id like to say that ive had the opportunity to visit and stay on most of singapore's navy ships, as well as am serving in the army myself.

Id like to point out that the reality is that singapore's goal is primarily to attain a pre emptive strike, as said beforehand, and as a deterrent. I do not believe that we expect to engage in a war anytime soon or in the future. Although we could win the initial strike, our economy entirely depends on our situation, and also we are not self sustaining.

With Mahathir and Lee Kuan Yew retired it is clear that there are new ties developing between us and malaysia.

With regards to the water supply issue, by 2020 i assume singapore will become highly independent, with the marina barrage, waste reclamation, etc etc what have you, and as well as the FTAs with the united states and other countries. We dont need to fight with you over land resources, or to add on to our current assets. Malaysia was a hinterland for singapore, but we are now looking onto other options.

However Malaysia has made provocative stances towards singapore before, such as the issue where former minister mahathir joked about bombing singapore (youtube). Ill leave you, the forum people to decide what to think.

This topic has been going on for quite a few years. Id like to see further comments.

Regards All,
AceofproZ

p.s. RSS formidable what a nice cover up name

you mean this formidable ? : http://aceofproz.sg/formidable.JPG

**RSS Formidable** · 14 Jul 07, 12:36

Originally Posted by AceofproZ

Hello All,
p.s. RSS formidable what a nice cover up name

you mean this formidable ? : http://aceofproz.sg/formidable.JPG

yep. that formidable. i'm a fan of the military.

welcome to the forums!

**AceofproZ** · 15 Jul 07, 02:17

Thanks, I took that picture myself.
Have you finished your NS yet ?

**hailer** · 06 Aug 07, 18:19

When Malaysia has no intention to increase their military strength, in the meantime Singapore keeps sneering and downgrading Malaysia, look as if they welcoming new arms race. Malaysia feels threatened by their “Offensive or Forward defense” doctrine. Should Malaysia change their doctrine too?, and start too increase the military expenditure?. If this what they want to see, then Malaysia should not wait any more.

By provoking Malaysia, is just an attempt to create response from Malaysia, so that they got reason to tell the word that their under threats. And of course they will get more support from the rest of the word because Malaysia is known as Islamic country. I am confident that, Malaysia one day will be attacked by Singapore. Malaysia is under pressure. So should Malaysia increase military strength and buy more weapons?

**captain** · 13 Aug 07, 14:32

Originally Posted by hailer

When Malaysia has no intention to increase their military strength, in the meantime Singapore keeps sneering and downgrading Malaysia, look as if they welcoming new arms race. Malaysia feels threatened by their “Offensive or Forward defense” doctrine. Should Malaysia change their doctrine too?, and start too increase the military expenditure?. If this what they want to see, then Malaysia should not wait any more.

By provoking Malaysia, is just an attempt to create response from Malaysia, so that they got reason to tell the word that their under threats. And of course they will get more support from the rest of the word because Malaysia is known as Islamic country. I am confident that, Malaysia one day will be attacked by Singapore. Malaysia is under pressure. So should Malaysia increase military strength and buy more weapons?

Hailer, may I ask why you think Singapore would want to attack you?
If it is about water, I am sure Singapore would simply build desalination plants as they have the economic means to do so.
If it is about land, why can't they simply reclaim land from the sea as other countries have.
Remember Hongkong became one of the worlds economic power houses with no natural resources other than their tiny island and people who were focussed on success.

From what I can see, Singapore is quite happy doing it's thing and has been very successful at it and would only ever respond to an iminent threat.
The people of Singapore I think, are far happier to get on with life, educate their kids, build their wealth and be at peace with everyone.

What other possible motive do you think they would have where they would risk destoying what they have been able to achieve?

Perhaps the Singaporians on this site would correct me if I am wrong.

Cheers.

**hailer** · 14 Aug 07, 18:26

Mr. Captain,

Newwater is their preparation toward future possible war, which is well-matched with their forward defense doctrine. Why they don’t just use sea/salt water to process. And I believe, they maybe worry of the sea water contamination with chemical during war. What about cost?

They aggressively reclaim land from the sea. But what will happen if their area have been fully reclaimed and getting expensive? They need more land to accommodate their manufacturing industries and air space.

They inspired with Israel doctrine and get advised from them which is history has proved that Israel strikes many neighbors.

Malaysia is Muslim country, which is already presumed as enemy of non-muslim nations. Most muslim country normally is possible target of big power and its their allies.

Singapore is not just ready to go for possible war, but they will go for war.
Singaporean have been discussing of possible attack in most blogs and forum websites by sneering, downgrading, and humiliating Malaysian.

Lastly is their Kiasu – to remain on top, is to ensure neighbors at the bottom.

And may I ask you Mr. Captain, what’s motivated you to question me? Do you feels under threatened too if Malaysia increase their military capability. Are you really honest seeking for peace?
And I am appreciated you by enlighten me that Hongkong people really focused on success as what Malaysia been trying too. Well Malaysia just started developing just about in early 80’s, just after the communist threats almost halted, where the communist had created internal instability that frightening the foreign investor. While Singapore starts developing earlier just before the separation of MY-SG in early 60’s . In fact, Singapore already has good infrastructures like airport and harbor, which helps their economy flourish. Well I’m not jealousy, but this is the fact.

**captain** · 15 Aug 07, 11:47

Newwater is their preparation toward future possible war, which is well-matched with their forward defense doctrine. Why they don’t just use sea/salt water to process. And I believe, they maybe worry of the sea water contamination with chemical during war. What about cost?

Although water is a very impotant issue for any country, going to war over it when desalination is a viable option is crazy.
I know it is expensive but Australia as do a number of other countries, already use some desalination plants with more to come I think.
Filtering out any possible contaminants is a simple proccess.

They aggressively reclaim land from the sea. But what will happen if their area have been fully reclaimed and getting expensive? They need more land to accommodate their manufacturing industries and air space.

I don't know, maybe they could lease land from someone else (Malaysia :-) )or simply keep reclaiming it from the sea.
As I understand it, Singapore's economy is more based on Hi tech and financial services rather than just a manufacturing state therefore not realy in need of vast tracts of land.
In any instance, still not good enough reason to risk war.

They inspired with Israel doctrine and get advised from them which is history has proved that Israel strikes many neighbors.

History shows that Israel strikes at those that strike them and more often than not just suffer the thousands of indiscriminate rocket attacks without responding.
Put yourself in their shoes for a moment and imagine what you would do if your neighbours all expressed a desire to drive you into the sea.
This point however has nothing to do with Singapore Vs Malaysia.

Malaysia is Muslim country, which is already presumed as enemy of non-muslim nations. Most muslim country normally is possible target of big power and its their allies.

This sounds like the all too often used "victim mentality" to me which is not at all helpfull to you as it negates any other possibilities and in the end may become a self fulfilling prophecy. Not a good idea.
I think the 35% of your population that are not muslim is a very large minority that would not support your veiw and like their Singaporean cousins, would rather just get on with life and develop mutually beneficial relations with their neighbours.

Singapore is not just ready to go for possible war, but they will go for war.

Time to do some serious diplomacy then, isn't it.

Singaporean have been discussing of possible attack in most blogs and forum websites by sneering, downgrading, and humiliating Malaysian

Lastly is their Kiasu – to remain on top, is to ensure neighbors at the bottom.

Blogs and forums are not government policy and words only hurt you if you let them. Ignore them or reply in a positive manner so an alternative veiw is seen.

And may I ask you Mr. Captain, what’s motivated you to question me? Do you feels under threatened too if Malaysia increase their military capability. Are you really honest seeking for peace?

I wrote my question because I am surprised that neighbours so close, both geographically and culturally would even consider going to war.

No, Australia does not consider Malaysia a threat either now or at any time in the forseeable future.

And I am appreciated you by enlighten me that Hongkong people really focused on success as what Malaysia been trying too. Well Malaysia just started developing just about in early 80’s, just after the communist threats almost halted, where the communist had created internal instability that frightening the foreign investor. While Singapore starts developing earlier just before the separation of MY-SG in early 60’s . In fact, Singapore already has good infrastructures like airport and harbor, which helps their economy flourish. Well I’m not jealousy, but this is the fact.

I am glad that you beleive Malaysia is trying to be successful and I wish you the best at doing that.
There is nothing at all wrong with trying to emulate other successful states including your closest neighbour, Singapore.

Have belief that you can engage with your neighbour for the mutual benefit of both countries and no more victim mentality and talk of war, OK!

Cheers.

**Ray** · 15 Aug 07, 12:07

[QUOTE]

Originally Posted by hailer

Your paranoia is incomprehensible.

It is impossible to believe that a dot on the world atlas (Singapore) could threaten or give sleepless nights to such a huge country like Malaysia!

They aggressively reclaim land from the sea. But what will happen if their area have been fully reclaimed and getting expensive? They need more land to accommodate their manufacturing industries and air space.

Is this a crime?

What will happen is their problem. How does it affect Malaysia?

They inspired with Israel doctrine and get advised from them which is history has proved that Israel strikes many neighbors.

So you actual worry is Israel and not Singapore.

Why are you Moslems worried about Israel so much? It is a small country!

Malaysia is Muslim country, which is already presumed as enemy of non-muslim nations. Most muslim country normally is possible target of big power and its their allies.

Paranoia speaks.

Singapore is not just ready to go for possible war, but they will go for war.
Singaporean have been discussing of possible attack in most blogs and forum websites by sneering, downgrading, and humiliating Malaysian.

If bloggers decided when to attack, then there would be no reason to have govt. Bloggers should run the country. Saves money and infrastructure!

If there was something that required humiliation, thenthat country deserves the humiliation, sneering and scorn! Unlike your whine, I have visited Malaysia and I find it a buoyant and a very successful country that knows where it wants to head. You seem to be a professional whiner who loves bringing in Islam at the drop of the Islamic cap!

Lastly is their Kiasu – to remain on top, is to ensure neighbors at the bottom.

Could you explain?

And may I ask you Mr. Captain, what’s motivated you to question me? Do you feels under threatened too if Malaysia increase their military capability. Are you really honest seeking for peace?

I find that you are more scared! Mr Captain is not the right person to be asked if he is for peace. Ask the Singaporean govt.

And I am appreciated you by enlighten me that Hongkong people really focused on success as what Malaysia been trying too. Well Malaysia just started developing just about in early 80’s, just after the communist threats almost halted, where the communist had created internal instability that frightening the foreign investor. While Singapore starts developing earlier just before the separation of MY-SG in early 60’s . In fact, Singapore already has good infrastructures like airport and harbor, which helps their economy flourish. Well I’m not jealousy, but this is the fact

Communists?

Again finding excuses?

Foreigner investors are not afraid of Communists (see how they are chums with China). They are AFRAID of ISLAMISTs and Mahathir has been the force who has started the process of turning Malaysia in to an Islamic country! That is God's Truth!

Singapore was a part of Malaysia and so how come they started to develop before Malaysia? In other words, you are saying that Malaysia was plumb lazy and only when they saw Singapore's success, Mahathir woke up!

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