Helium

Can you provide any evidence, such as a scientific paper or scientist or just a wiki page that CO2 is insignificant as a green house gas?

I am all too aware that methane has a much worse effect on the atmpsphere. And GW is seen in terms of that 'Human actions are changing the chemical composition quantities of the atmosphere', then water vapour (as I already recognized as a green house gas/component in a quote) remains constant and at natural levels because we do not ADD or release water vapour but we release tonns of carbon which does alter the quantities thus temperature. You must distinguish between organic green house chemicals which result in creating life through making the atmosphere oxic and a specific temporature and polutant green house gases which are the same chemicals but released by humans therefore altering the chemical composition of the at....ere.

If you believe CO2 is insignificant because of it being a tiny percentage of the overall atmospheric make up, then you must also believe Ozone is irrelevant because its even less than carbon but it just protects the earth from UV rays and also can be affected by human alteration of chemical substances through introducing CFC's. But then again the earth is alot flat isn't it.

If you refer to one of my posts above the actual quantity of carbon in the at...ere is naturally small but that does not mean its insignificant, the fact of the matter is if you introduce more of any subtance into the atmo...ere then you alter the chemical composition affecting oxic and temperature. Refer to the evolution of the atmosphere over billions of years and what the climate was like on the ground at the time

Ironduke

For example, the Arctic Ocean will be having ice-free summers soon for the first time in something like a million years. Pure coincidence, right?

__________________
The Buck Stops Here

dalem

Hah! I thought of him after reading that post about 5 times and trying to parse it "logically". Then I realized it was just a complete pile of excrement and treated it as such.

Poor wanker.

-dale

Ironduke

If you think there's bia in Google's results:

jew - Google Search

dalem

Can you prove that it's not?

-dale

Ironduke

Can you prove that something else is the main factor?

gunnut

Environmentalists' Wild Predictions

There are also links in half a dozen other threads posted in the science forum that provided proofs to debunk the IPCC report.

Insignificant amount.

By the way we added plenty of water vapor into the air. From the age of steam all the way up to current nuclear power plant cooling towers. Ever noticed when you turn on your car there's water dripping out of your tail pipe? Lots of water vapor.

A tiny amount of UV ray increases the chance of skin cancer. It affects us directly. The earth doesn't care much.

A tiny amount of CO2 doesn't give us skin cancer. It does not affect us directly. The earth doesn't care much.

And we have never had any data that is accurate to within a few decades of earth's history. We have long term trends. By long term I mean a minimum of a thousands of years. We have been burning fossil fuel on a large scale for about 100 years. If we keep doing that for 10,000 years we might see a good tread developing. But we don't have 10,000 years worth of oil, do we?

__________________
"Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

gunnut

Was there anyone here 34,000 years ago to check to see if there was ice in the arctic during summer? How about 675,896 years ago?

The Greenland glacier was on a rapid decline near the end of the 1990s (which prompted Rev. Al to become hysterical) but for some odd reason it stopped. Are you sure the Arctic will be ice free in a few years during summer?

South Pole is getting colder with ice sheets getting thicker in the middle. How do you explain that?

Half of Colorado is buried under snow, in May.

I have not noticed the temperature in my city to be any different over the past 25 years. Some summers get hot and some winters are cold.

If it's "global" warming, why are there places getting colder?

gunnut

Didn't the Max Plank Institude of Germany say the sun was slightly brighter over the last 20 years? For some odd reason astronomers have noticed all the inner planets have been slightly hotter over the last 20 years. Mars is slightly hotter right now than a few years ago. We do have 2 SUVs running around there though...

dalem

That's not the way science works, my friend. Your theory, you bring the evidence.

-dale

Ironduke

My belief is that greenhouse gases kickstarted the warming trend in the Arctic and an albedo effect took over.

From NASA:
NASA - Researchers Say Arctic Sea Ice Still at Risk Despite Cold Winter

According to NASA, the sun goes through 11-year cycles, and this year is the solar minimum. Makes sense, as it was five years ago there were record high temperatures in Europe that killed 35,000 people. We'll see what 2012-2013 looks like, the next solar maximum. Somehow I doubt 2008 is anywhere near the extreme cold wave of 1997.

Like I said before, increased CO2 is going to aggravate the heating trends, and mitigate the cooling trends.

7thsfsniper

Originally posted by Shek

Here are a few facts: Over 95 percent of the greenhouse effect is the result of water vapor in Earth's atmosphere. Without the greenhouse effect, Earth's average temperature would be zero degrees Fahrenheit. Most climate change is a result of the orbital eccentricities of Earth and variations in the sun's output. On top of that, natural wetlands produce more greenhouse gas contributions annually than all human sources combined. end quote


This pretty much sums up what I believe to be true. Man really has not very much impact on the global enviroment. Man can have a great impact on local/regional enviroments. However, the earth has a tendency to recover very well after man has fouled up an area.

The fact is, and it has been demonstrated well by evidence posted in this thread, that the earth is going to have climate changes regardless of what man does. As shown by the 2000 year reconstruction, we can see that we have only had about a four degree F variance in the global average. We have not even reached the record of the MWP as of yet, according to that evidence. However we have noticed cooling for the past seven years and I would bet that in a few more years we may see another warm up, regardless of our actions.

At this time I would have to say that Chicken Little(al Gore) has sounded the alarm but only to his own benefit. I think the next few years will show us the error of literally panicking in the face of a fear that is niether as bad as suggested and even if it is, there is not much we can do to stop it.

__________________
Don't run, you'll only die tired!

gunnut

But there are other studies that stated the shifting current that brought warmer waters closer to the north pole was responsible for melting the ice. The earth isn't getting warmer. The warmth just moved around.

brokensickle

Ironduke,


You,ve made the point...IT'S THE FREAKING SUN! Solar minimum?...Solar Maximum?

To simple I suppose.

Me stoke up the fire...Get hot... Me let fire burn down...Get cold...HMMM...Me get close to fire...Get hot...Me get away from fire...Get cool...HMMMM...so smoke cause fire to get hot? "Time to go to bed Al"....I be there in minute Tipper, I discovered that smoke cause heat.

__________________
"Evil opposes freedom and uses those who pervert it as pawns to destroy it."

Ironduke

If you'll read right below that:
There's not a single source that says that. Generally the number is estimated to be a 1/3 to 2/3.
But there are other studies, but there are other studies....

I don't particularly care. As far as I'm concerned, NASA is my bible here. What they say is somewhere in between the global warming extremists and the skeptical extremists. They have the most advanced technology studying this phenomenon, so I'm just going to take their word over everybody else's, Al Gore's as well as the skeptics'.

Have a nice day.