Movie Fitna

Mobbme · 03-28-2008, 21:08 PM

Hey, I haven't watched this yet, but its been banned on a few of my sites. I found a link where its still playing, so watch it asap before it gets banned. I don't know what the fuss is about since I haven't watched it, will watch tomorrow (because I won't be watching leafs), so here ya go ladies and gents:

Video: Fitna the Movie: Geert Wilders' film about the Quran (English)

Theres a warning due to graphic scenes I believe.

If this is not allowed here, pls delete the thread and not me!

gunnut · 03-28-2008, 22:35 PM

I'm sure this will be on LiveLeak. Nothing's ever banned on LiveLeak.

T_igger_cs_30 · 03-28-2008, 22:48 PM

What can you say?.....frightening

Mobbme · 03-29-2008, 04:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gunnut

I'm sure this will be on LiveLeak. Nothing's ever banned on LiveLeak.

Hey gunnut, its banned my man. Liveleak is one of my fav sites; they've already written an apology because of that. Here:

Following threats to our staff of a very serious nature, and some ill informed reports from certain corners of the British media that could directly lead to the harm of some of our staff, Liveleak.com has been left with no other choice but to remove Fitna from our servers.
This is a sad day for freedom of speech on the net but we have to place the safety and well being of our staff above all else. We would like to thank the thousands of people, from all backgrounds and religions, who gave us their support. They realised LiveLeak.com is a vehicle for many opinions and not just for the support of one.
Perhaps there is still hope that this situation may produce a discussion that could benefit and educate all of us as to how we can accept one anothers culture.
We stood for what we believe in, the ability to be heard, but in the end the price was too high.

Unbelievable if you ask me, I can't wait to view it now

**Parihaka** · 03-29-2008, 05:25 AM

Well, having sat through the whole thing I see exactly the same patterns I've seen reviewing the archive material prior to and during World War II.
It's something that seems to happen periodically to continental Europe, every 50 or so years some group or other gains ascendancy, isolates and vilifies another group and then begins a concerted programme of extermination. That film was a direct crib from Goebels NSDAP.
I'm with Dale: we're going to be back there fighting again within 20 years, this time to keep the European Muslims out of the extermination camps.

JamesCash · 03-29-2008, 05:34 AM

Well, what you need to understand about this movie is that is a part of Geert Wilders political campaign/crusade.

He is convinced that moslims will take over our country or at least he is using this message to get a lot of voters on his hand. His opinions are the opposite of moderated and he righteously calls on the freedom of speech to justify his opinions if anyone seeks to call him in line.
What I don't like about him is that he calls on the freedom of speech to try and diminish another very important freedom namely the freedom of religion. What I mean is that he wants people to respect his right of speech yet he himself tries to violate another important right in our society. He wants to take away the right of moslims to be in parliament, and he is seeking to close alot of mosques.

Part of this movie is to propagate his message to the dutch, and part of it is the publicity he gets for making it. The dutch media have been all over this movie for the last 3 months generating alot of debate and discussion. And that takes me to the only good part about this movie, it sparked the debate.

neyzen · 03-29-2008, 05:54 AM

They knew fanatics will have some threats on video before they published the video. Their act doesn't look sincere to me.

Video is part of continuing pr campaign. Let kill all Iraqis, Palestinians. Public opinion is behind us. nukes (out), democracy (out), our freedom (in)

Neo · 03-29-2008, 06:33 AM

Well said James, the movie is being condemned by the government and the moderates:

Quote:

STATEMENT BY PRIME MINISTER BALKENENDE

(Home - Government.nl)

Date: Thu, Mar 27, 2008

'On behalf of the Dutch government, I would like to respond to the online film by Mr Wilders.

The film shows images of violent acts and holds Islam and the Koran responsible for them. The government condemns such acts and those who commit them.

The film equates Islam with violence. We reject this interpretation. The vast majority of Muslims reject extremism and violence. In fact, the victims are often also Muslims.

We therefore regret that Mr Wilders has released this film. We believe it serves no purpose other than to cause offence. But feeling offended must never be used as an excuse for aggression and threats. The government is heartened by the initial restrained reactions of Dutch Muslim organisations.

Muslims, Christians and people of other convictions can easily live together in peace. The problem is not religion, but misuse of religion to sow hatred and intolerance. That is why we are calling for respect for everyone's deepest convictions.

We are aware of the concerns and the sentiments about this film in the international Muslim community. We have recently spoken with many people at home and abroad to promote mutual understanding. We will continue to follow this course.

The Dutch government stands for a society in which freedom and respect go hand in hand. Such a society demands dedication and commitment. We oppose extremism. Anyone who breaks the law is dealt with firmly. Let us solve problems by working together. Let us reach out to others and build confidence and trust. Let us conquer prejudice. We shall surely succeed.'

REACTION BY DUTCH MUSLIMS

Dutch News Agency ANP reports that the 'National Comittee of Maroccans (LBM) has said to be 'very relieved' now that they have seen the movie by Geert Wilders. "The concerns that we and the Dutch society had for riots are considerably lower" said mr Brahim Bourzik. According to Bourzik this is also thanks to the efforts of the Dutch Government, "specifically the efforts made by Prime Minister Balkenende and Minister Vogelaar". Bourzik also said that Wilders apparently did think very well about his movie. "it is within the borders of the law". Like the LBM had promised before, the Maroccan Mosques will open their doors for all Dutch people on Friday. They will hold a press conference in the El Ouma Mosque in Amsterdam on Friday morning.

ANP also reports that Mustafa Biltunku of the Eyüp Sultan-mosque in Amsterdam, has not seen the movie. "Don't pay attention to it", the Turkish Iman said. "As long as we do, it will only become more important, while it is not worth it. That is wat I advise my people".

Imam Ali Kartal of the Mescid-i Aksa Mosque (Milli Görüs) in Utrecht said that he will not pay attention to the film in his sermon on Friday. "We should not be dancing in the garden of Wilders. The man is not worth it. Also when the mosque-attendants have questions, I will advise them not to react.". Kartal has only seen short parts of the film. "That he wanted to make an anti-Islam film, was clear to everyone".

Former 'head-Iman' of MMilli Görüs, M. Hulusi ünye, also was not very impresssed. "This kind of reaction we have seen since the revelation of the Qu'ran. The Qu'ran and the Islam are big enough to resist this".

ANP reports that Qu'uran expert Shayk Fawaz has called on Muslims for calm reactions. He did that in a speech in Arabac for hundreds of Muslims in Roermond. "We should not go and throw stones at windows after this film, because that is exactly what Mr Wilders wants" said Fawas at the debate with Christians that was organized by the Salafist youth organization Alfeth. Fawaz said that he has taken Qu'uran verses out of the right context.

REACTION BY DUTCH POLITICS

Government coalition parties:
CDA (Christian Democrats)

"De film is villainous and unnecessarily hurtful". The Christian Democrats had already called on Wilders not to produce the film.

PvdA (Social Democrats)

Marriette Hamer, vice-Partyleader said: "Wilders is seeding fear. The images are well-known, but the way he puts them together is deliberately meant to seed fear. Legally, it is within the law. I hope that the Dutch will be commonsensical enough to not be letting them drift apart". The PvdA is hoping to debate mr Wilders soon and appreciates the fact that Wilders has said he is willing to, "because so far he has refused".

CU (Christian Union)

"The impression is made that every Muslim uses violence, which fortunately is not the case. Most Muslims reject the mis-use of Islam and appreciate the fact that such abuse is not permitted in The Netherlands"

Opposition Parties:
SP (Socialist Party)

The Socialist Party said that they had seen "nothing new" in the Film Fitna. 'Most of the images and newspaper clippings are nothing new. Wilders only recognizes one kind of Islam: the Islam of the fundamentalists. In that respect, he is one and the same with the people he says he wants to fight with".

VVD (Conservative Liberals)

Partyleader Mark Rutte said the film was a 'missed chance'. "he had the opportunity to present solutions to a public of millions for problems of radical Islam and integration. Instead, he chose to show old images of terrorists and criminal acts. Parliamentarians should not be digging in archives, but work towards solving problems. That is what we are being paid for".

D66 (Liberal Democrats)

,,Wilders tries to explain a world religion in 16 minutes and connects in an inimitable way fascism, communism and Islam", says Alexander Pechtold, Leader of D66. He appreciates that Wilders is willing to engage in a debate with Muslims, but he would like to engage him in a parliamentary debate. "I have been asking for such a debate for the last year, but he keeps on evading it."

The Anti-Islam movie made by a Dutch lawyer has been released - Page 3

kuku · 03-29-2008, 07:04 AM

Its sill out on torrents for anyone to see.

Better to deal with this now, it seems there is a lot of anger against the Muslim community.

neyzen · 03-29-2008, 09:54 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCrCsTMokTU

entropy · 03-29-2008, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Parihaka

Well, having sat through the whole thing I see exactly the same patterns I've seen reviewing the archive material prior to and during World War II.
It's something that seems to happen periodically to continental Europe, every 50 or so years some group or other gains ascendancy, isolates and vilifies another group and then begins a concerted programme of extermination. That film was a direct crib from Goebels NSDAP.
I'm with Dale: we're going to be back there fighting again within 20 years, this time to keep the European Muslims out of the extermination camps.

The blame lies on who?

I'm not guilty for the burned cars, for the robbed people, for messages of hate.
We give them freedom, they call us racists and burn our cars.

Reduce me Ad Hitlerum if you want, but the Muslims are the only ones guilty here in Benelux. They do get everything, from a right to receive prayer time on their job to subsidizing of their religion and cultural centra.

We are not to blame if they behave like pigs in our houses and we get tired.

EDIT: oh yes, and there will be no NSDAP. The politicians will keep ostriching their heads into the sand, claiming the problem is "too complex to solve" and telling us to stop being "racist". This will go on for a long time, until the champagne bottle is shaken so hard that the cork pops out by itself. Then things will turn grim.

Blame it on the ostrich politics.

JamesCash · 03-29-2008, 12:50 PM

So you would like to blame the entire muslim community in the Benelux for the behavior of a small group? I think it's needless to say integration takes alot of time and some generations. Above that this group of immigrants thought they would not be settling down here which makes it even more troublesome.

Anyway, what would be your solution to the problem entropy?
I think we should just hang in there and do what we can to teach the newcomers about freedom of speech and the way we run things here in the west. We got alot of wealth of the world so I think I would have done the same if it was the other way around. I don't think it matters who we blame, I think we should try and find solutions.

entropy · 03-29-2008, 13:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JamesCash

So you would like to blame the entire muslim community in the Benelux for the behavior of a small group? I think it's needless to say integration takes alot of time and some generations. Above that this group of immigrants thought they would not be settling down here which makes it even more troublesome.

Anyway, what would be your solution to the problem entropy?
I think we should just hang in there and do what we can to teach the newcomers about freedom of speech and the way we run things here in the west. We got alot of wealth of the world so I think I would have done the same if it was the other way around. I don't think it matters who we blame, I think we should try and find solutions.

Caught 3 times for serious offences -> deportation.

That for non-citizens. It's a start. I see no arguments against this one.

Neo · 03-29-2008, 14:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JamesCash

So you would like to blame the entire muslim community in the Benelux for the behavior of a small group? I think it's needless to say integration takes alot of time and some generations. Above that this group of immigrants thought they would not be settling down here which makes it even more troublesome.

Generalisation is never good for anything, there are over 56 million muslims living in Europe. Blaming them for the deeds of couple of thousands of muslim radicals is unfair.
About the first few waives of migrants who never expected to settle down but didn't return either I can only say that they failed the society as much as the system failed them. Governments in the fifties and sixties didn't undertake any pro active actions to help them integrate, its too late now.

Quote:

Anyway, what would be your solution to the problem entropy?
I think we should just hang in there and do what we can to teach the newcomers about freedom of speech and the way we run things here in the west. We got alot of wealth of the world so I think I would have done the same if it was the other way around. I don't think it matters who we blame, I think we should try and find solutions.

The solution is to reach out and create an environment agreeable to both sides. The number of muslims in Holland is reaching 1 million and increasing due natural growth.
Denieng them access to the parliament or building mosques as suggested by Wilders is not the solution.

Neo · 03-29-2008, 14:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by entropy

Caught 3 times for serious offences -> deportation.

This should apply on all foreigners, not only muslims.
Jails in Holland are packed with criminals from Dutch Antilles and Bulgaria, Morocco come at third place.

03-28-2008, 21:08 PM	#1 (permalink)
Mobbme The Cool Guy *Senior Contributor* Join Date: 10-10-07 Location: Ontario Posts: 1,222 Country:	Movie Fitna Hey, I haven't watched this yet, but its been banned on a few of my sites. I found a link where its still playing, so watch it asap before it gets banned. I don't know what the fuss is about since I haven't watched it, will watch tomorrow (because I won't be watching leafs), so here ya go ladies and gents: Video: Fitna the Movie: Geert Wilders' film about the Quran (English) Theres a warning due to graphic scenes I believe. If this is not allowed here, pls delete the thread and not me!

03-28-2008, 22:35 PM	#2 (permalink)
gunnut *Senior Contributor* Join Date: 01-27-06 Location: DPRK, Democratik People's Republik of Kalifornia Posts: 9,361 Country:	I'm sure this will be on LiveLeak. Nothing's ever banned on LiveLeak. __________________ "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

03-28-2008, 22:48 PM	#3 (permalink)
T_igger_cs_30 *Military Professional* Join Date: 01-04-07 Location: Canada Posts: 1,943 Country:	*What can you say?.....frightening* __________________ $<img src=http://C:\Documents and Settings\Wayne Smith\My Documents\002...My Pictures border=0 alt= />$ FEAR NAUGHT I don't work here ...I am an analyst!

03-29-2008, 05:34 AM	#6 (permalink)
JamesCash New Member Join Date: 03-23-08 Location: Suburb Posts: 23 Country:	Well, what you need to understand about this movie is that is a part of Geert Wilders political campaign/crusade. He is convinced that moslims will take over our country or at least he is using this message to get a lot of voters on his hand. His opinions are the opposite of moderated and he righteously calls on the freedom of speech to justify his opinions if anyone seeks to call him in line. What I don't like about him is that he calls on the freedom of speech to try and diminish another very important freedom namely the freedom of religion. What I mean is that he wants people to respect his right of speech yet he himself tries to violate another important right in our society. He wants to take away the right of moslims to be in parliament, and he is seeking to close alot of mosques. Part of this movie is to propagate his message to the dutch, and part of it is the publicity he gets for making it. The dutch media have been all over this movie for the last 3 months generating alot of debate and discussion. And that takes me to the only good part about this movie, it sparked the debate. Last edited by JamesCash : 03-29-2008 at 05:48 AM.

03-29-2008, 07:04 AM	#9 (permalink)
kuku Contributor Join Date: 02-28-08 Location: delhi Posts: 610 Country:	Its sill out on torrents for anyone to see. Better to deal with this now, it seems there is a lot of anger against the Muslim community. __________________ cheers

03-29-2008, 05:25 AM	#5 (permalink)
Parihaka Moderator Join Date: 11-10-04 Location: Te Ika a Maui Posts: 9,462 Country:	Well, having sat through the whole thing I see exactly the same patterns I've seen reviewing the archive material prior to and during World War II. It's something that seems to happen periodically to continental Europe, every 50 or so years some group or other gains ascendancy, isolates and vilifies another group and then begins a concerted programme of extermination. That film was a direct crib from Goebels NSDAP. I'm with Dale: we're going to be back there fighting again within 20 years, this time to keep the European Muslims out of the extermination camps.

03-29-2008, 05:54 AM	#7 (permalink)
neyzen Patron Join Date: 04-22-06 Posts: 213 Country:	They knew fanatics will have some threats on video before they published the video. Their act doesn't look sincere to me. Video is part of continuing pr campaign. Let kill all Iraqis, Palestinians. Public opinion is behind us. nukes (out), democracy (out), our freedom (in)

03-29-2008, 09:54 AM	#10 (permalink)
neyzen Patron Join Date: 04-22-06 Posts: 213 Country:	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCrCsTMokTU

03-29-2008, 12:50 PM	#12 (permalink)
JamesCash New Member Join Date: 03-23-08 Location: Suburb Posts: 23 Country:	So you would like to blame the entire muslim community in the Benelux for the behavior of a small group? I think it's needless to say integration takes alot of time and some generations. Above that this group of immigrants thought they would not be settling down here which makes it even more troublesome. Anyway, what would be your solution to the problem entropy? I think we should just hang in there and do what we can to teach the newcomers about freedom of speech and the way we run things here in the west. We got alot of wealth of the world so I think I would have done the same if it was the other way around. I don't think it matters who we blame, I think we should try and find solutions. Last edited by JamesCash : 03-29-2008 at 12:55 PM.

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