The Nerve of These Guys!... - Page 12

**astralis** · 03-28-2008, 13:00 PM

tigger,

sam huntingdon's clash of civilizations thesis has been disproved so many times in academia and the real world that it really doesn't bear mentioning anymore. moreover, his other ideas about "asian values" etc etc veer on the very edge of racism.

however, he DID make one (somewhat) salient point, which OoE has mentioned here:

"The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact, non-Westerners never do."

Adux · 03-28-2008, 13:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Agnostic Muslim

You have been given answers, you just don't like them because they don't fit your world view and the trumped up narrative of Pakistan and Pakistanis you and some other Indians cling to in order to dehumanize us.

For Starters,

Reply to posts 146 and 154,
Difference between a democratic, secular, moderate, humanistic other than a intolerent religion or race based society, we will never be able to do that, and just runs against everything we stand for. If that was the case, Americans would have send all the muslims packing, they didnt nor will they ever, and its not because they cant.

Quote:

I am still waiting to hear from you on how 14 percent equates "widespread".

Read your posts again.

I have other reports which states otherwise, I am sure I have to again put it up over here. You loose much crediblity in my eyes atleast when you have show self-introspection and when you try to justify some balant injustices on some pretext or the other.

Adux · 03-28-2008, 13:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by astralis

The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact, non-Westerners never do."

Isnt that the case with all civilization, The west has been only successful in the past 1000 years, there were civilizations before that did just that. Mongols, Hans or Gupta's etc were all large empires. And West during the colonial times were never ONE block

7thsfsniper · 03-28-2008, 20:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by astralis

tigger,

however, he DID make one (somewhat) salient point, which OoE has mentioned here:

"The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact, non-Westerners never do."

Cuz' that's how s**t gets done!

Who wouldn't love a world where we could sit down at a table and work everything out without war or killing. Unfortunately table sittin' always seems to follow the whoopin' because of extremist nutjobs that refuse to recognize basic human rights and don't understand anything else. I've worked in law enforcement and personal protection in all its facets. Every single time I stopped a bad guy from whailing on an innocent I got nothing but gratitude. Makes sense, huh? Thing is, some bullys you can tell to stop and they do because they are just smart enough to know they are about to get an attitude adjustment and realize what they are doing really isn't right. Some are just stupid and only understand one thing. I treat people like I would want to be treated. As I have stated earlier and i can't remember if it was this thread or another, but I help people in need of assistance. I would also hope that someone would help me if I needed it. And I won't walk up to you with a bomb and kill innocents in the process. I'll do my best to give you a first class, 50 cent, precision delivery, full metal jacket ticket to the heaven of your choice so the rest us can try to have some chance to live in peace.

I served with several hundred thousand men and women who think just like that. Americans have fought on nearly every foriegn soil and for what. Money, oil, land, what? The only land we ever asked for was to bury our dead. And we're not alone. Brits, Canadians, Aussies, (you know the rest). Politicians don't always represent thier people. The people I know are ready and willing to help.

People can hate the west, blame the west, whatever. I think they are just jealous. Maybe if they get together and overthrow thier oppressors on thier own like we did(absolutely no offense to the Brits here) they would have more pride in what they accomplish and try harder to preserve it.

AG and Adux- Good jousting- but I think you guys are stuck in a loop now. To be honest, I think a bit over analyzed. In the end doesn't it come down to being treated like you would want to be treated(regardless of religion). Sharia just isn't for me or anyone I know and if I see some jerk beating his wife or comitting any other assinine, cruel, "punishment" as prescribed by such I will not apologize after giving him some of his own medicine.

Samudra · 03-28-2008, 20:52 PM

Quote:

A Hindu was the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court after the dismissal of the CJ Iftikhar Chaudhry

AM.

I'm sorry to butt in again but you're forgetting that the damn man had to swear on Allah to be the Chief Justice. Hindu/Christian Judges have to swear on the name of Allah : courtesy Zia. Did you not know that before ?
It begins with Bismillah which clearly has Islamic connotations.

**astralis** · 03-28-2008, 21:41 PM

adux,

Quote:

Isnt that the case with all civilization, The west has been only successful in the past 1000 years, there were civilizations before that did just that. Mongols, Hans or Gupta's etc were all large empires. And West during the colonial times were never ONE block

thus the "somewhat".

T_igger_cs_30 · 03-28-2008, 22:12 PM

Quote:

tigger,

sam huntingdon's clash of civilizations thesis has been disproved so many times in academia and the real world that it really doesn't bear mentioning anymore. moreover, his other ideas about "asian values" etc etc veer on the very edge of racism.

however, he DID make one (somewhat) salient point, which OoE has mentioned here:

"The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact, non-Westerners never do."

IMO he made more than one "salient" point, like the one I posted, but I respect yours and others opinions.

7thsfsniper · 03-28-2008, 22:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T_igger_cs_30

IMO he made more than one "salient" point, like the one I posted, but I respect yours and others opinions.

Where did you post it? I would like very much to read it.

T_igger_cs_30 · 03-28-2008, 22:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 7thsfsniper

Where did you post it? I would like very much to read it.

post # 139

T_igger_cs_30 · 03-28-2008, 22:27 PM

Quote:

"The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact, non-Westerners never do."

I agreed with this quote up untill 9/11

7thsfsniper · 03-28-2008, 23:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T_igger_cs_30

The fundemental source of conflict in the "New World" will not be primarily idealogical or primarily economic.
The great divisions among humankind and the dominating force of conflict will be culture.

Samuel P Huntingdon,"The Clash of Civilizations" 1993

Can't believe I missed that! This has been discussed on other threads that I'm sure you've posted to. It was more of what would be the division in the case of a european civil war as opposed to an american civil war(race, religion, etc)

"Culture" is a bit broad but I absolutely agree with its significance. Culture should be more obvious because it has been the biggest hurdle historically. Thanks.

7thsfsniper · 03-28-2008, 23:26 PM

Quote:
"The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact, non-Westerners never do."

Quote:

Originally Posted by T_igger_cs_30

I agreed with this quote up untill 9/11

So is it back to the hearts and minds strategy?

T_igger_cs_30 · 03-28-2008, 23:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 7thsfsniper

Quote:So is it back to the hearts and minds strategy?

Not talking about strategy regarding the quote, 7, the reason I dont believe it(the quote) now is after 9/11 I do not think western(ers) will forget anything ever again,.............the rules of play changed in a very significant way that day.

**Officer of Engineers** · 03-28-2008, 23:53 PM

Sgt-Maj,

I strongly disagree here. People have already got blinders on. The NDP wants us to cuddle the Taliban instead of killing them. Hell, even during the invasion, the NDP wanted us to go in as a UN Peacekeeping Force.

T_igger_cs_30 · 03-29-2008, 00:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers

Sgt-Maj,

I strongly disagree here. People have already got blinders on. The NDP wants us to cuddle the Taliban instead of killing them. Hell, even during the invasion, the NDP wanted us to go in as a UN Peacekeeping Force.

Sir, I understand where you are coming from and I respect what your saying, however IMO the liberal left, bleading heart liberals whatever we want to call them will keep having to backtrack and eat there words due in the main to the Islamic terrorists themselves who will keep on perpetrating thier atrocities, we are due a big one anytime now, Old dustbin lid himself said a couple of weeks ago, Europe is next, just where we can only guess, but I think we all know it will one of two places.
And in between attrocities it is upto the likes of yourself curent serving members of the forces to continually remind them of the foolishness of letting the gaurd down.
Eventually they will get it..........this one is to the finish one way or another.

03-28-2008, 13:00 PM	#166 (permalink)
astralis *Foreign Service* Moderator Lei Feng Protege Join Date: 08-23-05 Location: Washington, DC Posts: 2,943 Country:	tigger, sam huntingdon's clash of civilizations thesis has been disproved so many times in academia and the real world that it really doesn't bear mentioning anymore. moreover, his other ideas about "asian values" etc etc veer on the very edge of racism. however, he DID make one (somewhat) salient point, which OoE has mentioned here: "The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact, non-Westerners never do." __________________ Never let the future disturb you. You will meet it, if you have to, with the same weapons of reason which today arm you against the present. -Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

03-28-2008, 23:53 PM	#179 (permalink)
Officer of Engineers *Military Professional* Moderator Scotch taster Join Date: 08-06-03 Posts: 15,915 Country:	Sgt-Maj, I strongly disagree here. People have already got blinders on. The NDP wants us to cuddle the Taliban instead of killing them. Hell, even during the invasion, the NDP wanted us to go in as a UN Peacekeeping Force. __________________ Chimo

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