Oaths of alleigance for British children? - Page 2

dave lukins · 03-11-2008, 17:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gunnut

What? You brits making your colonial subjects swear allegiance to the empire on some remote corner of the globe again?

I hope you was saluting when you made that statement

glyn · 03-11-2008, 18:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dave lukins

I hope you was saluting when you made that statement

And I hope that he was jesting, but you never know - he lives in California.

gunnut · 03-11-2008, 18:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dave lukins

I hope you was saluting when you made that statement

While singing God Save the Queen...

**Parihaka** · 03-11-2008, 18:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gunnut

While singing God Save the Queen...

I never had much truck with that song until Billy Connelly pointed out that if anybody deserved saving it was dear old Liz, and God was just the fella to do it.

Gun Grape · 03-11-2008, 19:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gunnut

While singing God Save the Queen...

hey, One of my favorite Sex Pistols songs

Quote:

God save the Queen
Her facist regime
They made you a moron
Potential h-bomb

God save the Queen
She ain't no human being
There's no future
In England's dreaming

Don't be told what you want
Don't be told what you need
There's no future, no future
No future for you

Skull6 · 03-11-2008, 19:27 PM

Here in the US, we find that there's more schools having their students say our pledge in rural areas than city ones. Could it be that there's more support for this proposal in the more rural areas of Britain than in this one, single school where the children were interviewed in the pictures?

& does anyone else remember the times when kids (perhaps reluctantly) did the things their parents & other adults told them to do?

glyn · 03-11-2008, 19:28 PM

And all the numb-nuts that bought their records made that 'band' rich!

Gun Grape · 03-11-2008, 20:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glyn

And all the numb-nuts that bought their records made that 'band' rich!

Glyn

Did you just call me a numb nuts?

As a teenager in 1977 that was a "Must have" LP

glyn · 03-12-2008, 05:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gun Grape

Glyn

Did you just call me a numb nuts?

As a teenager in 1977 that was a "Must have" LP

Youth + disposable income = great wealth for their idols. Surreal!
As you now know maturity replaces adolescence

crooks · 03-12-2008, 12:44 PM

Scots Blast For Pledge Of Allegiance Plans - The Daily Record

Quote:

But the idea caused outrage in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland and enraged human rights campaigners and antimonarchy groups.

First Minister Alex Salmond dismissed the plan by Labour peer Lord Goldsmith as "Monty Python-esque".

Former Attorney General Goldsmith believes that encouraging school leavers to take a loyalty oath at special "coming of age" ceremonies would help make them better citizens.

He wants the kids' oath to be similar to the one already taken by new UK citizens. They promise to uphold British values, and "swear by Almighty God that they will bear faithful and true allegiance" to the Queen.

Goldsmith's report on promoting good citizenship came up with a raft of other ideas, including council tax cuts for community volunteers and a UK national day.

But his call for loyalty oaths for kids was widely condemned, and the SNP quickly vowed that there would be no such ceremonies in Scotland.

Alex Salmond said: "It's a kind of Comic Cuts, Monty Python-esque, Basil Fawlty approach to citizenship."

Judith Gillespie, of the Scottish Parent Teacher Council, said: "All the parents I've spoken to about it say they are opposed."

Glaswegian Labour peer Helena Kennedy, one of Britain's top human rights lawyers, called the plan "silly" and "an empty gesture".

Welsh Labour MP Paul Flynn said there was "zero support" in his country for the loyalty oath, and experts on Northern Ireland politics warned that the Province would have to be totally excluded from any scheme.

The problem is I've never met a non-English Briton, or non-Unionist Northern Irish person, who would describe themselves nationally as British.

Probably the primary reason it'll fail.

crooks · 03-12-2008, 12:50 PM

On the issue of national pledges in general, I support them, and would support one for Ireland - but they should be inclusive and secular.

Alternatively maybe spend 20 minutes of school time every week allowing the kids to talk about how they feel about the country, and what you're proud of or not proud of when it comes to the nation - as a primary school teacher, It could be fun, and constructive...possibly also more meaningful than reciting the same thing over and over until it loses it's impact.

dave lukins · 03-12-2008, 13:40 PM

I wonder if Goldsmith meant "take the oath" or "take the oaf".."and make him a better person."

The man is living in Cloud Cookoo land if he thinks this will get off the ground.

ChrisF202 · 03-12-2008, 13:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crooks

On the issue of national pledges in general, I support them, and would support one for Ireland - but they should be inclusive and secular.

Alternatively maybe spend 20 minutes of school time every week allowing the kids to talk about how they feel about the country, and what you're proud of or not proud of when it comes to the nation - as a primary school teacher, It could be fun, and constructive...possibly also more meaningful than reciting the same thing over and over until it loses it's impact.

Yes but the point is that many of the recent immigrants ARE NOT proud about the UK, they see themselves as part of group X and not British or English, Scottish, etc.

Its very much the same thing here with the illegal (and in many cases the legal) immigrants. They are not coming to the US because they want to be Americans; they are coming because the know the government will give them whatever they demand and pander to them at the expense of the taxpayer (who is labeled a racist Nazi if they dare complain).

crooks · 03-12-2008, 13:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisF202

Yes but the point is that many of the recent immigrants ARE NOT proud about the UK, they see themselves as part of group X and not British or English, Scottish, etc.

Its very much the same thing here with the illegal (and in many cases the legal) immigrants. They are not coming to the US because they want to be Americans; they are coming because the know the government will give them whatever they demand and pander to them at the expense of the taxpayer (who is labeled a racist Nazi if they dare complain).

What the heck has that got to do with what I posted, or indeed the topic of the thread

?

I'm not claiming that a pledge should be inclusive and secular to pander to immigrants, I think it should be inclusive and secular because not everyone in any one country will come from the exact same Religious or Ethnic groupings - That is not to say that there isn't pride in the shared national identity, but a pledge should represent everyone who lives in the land, make them equally proud, and be a beacon to which all the people can unite, regardless of what else divides them.

I have loads of friends from different ethnic backgrouds who all call themselves Irish, true and true - Our nation has become a patchwork of diversity that stands very proud under one green, white and orange banner.....why not have a pledge that does the same?

In varietate concordia , my friend

.

dave lukins · 03-12-2008, 14:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisF202

Yes but the point is that many of the recent immigrants ARE NOT proud about the UK, they see themselves as part of group X and not British or English, Scottish, etc.

Its very much the same thing here with the illegal (and in many cases the legal) immigrants. They are not coming to the US because they want to be Americans; they are coming because the know the government will give them whatever they demand and pander to them at the expense of the taxpayer (who is labeled a racist Nazi if they dare complain).

We all seem to be in the same boat. Your problems are now mirrored across the Pond and looks like it is getting worse. On the TV Monday night, we were informed that over 1 million Poles had come to the UK in just 2 yrs and thats just the Polish figure. 5 Afghans where stopped at the border hidden in a truck. The Police wrote them out a rail ticket and told them to report to a Detention Centre...Now guess what happened next..Correct, they are now on the loose somewhere in the UK and this happens every single day

03-11-2008, 19:27 PM	#21 (permalink)
Skull6 *Military Professional* Join Date: 08-28-07 Location: Colorado Posts: 290 Country:	Here in the US, we find that there's more schools having their students say our pledge in rural areas than city ones. Could it be that there's more support for this proposal in the more rural areas of Britain than in this one, single school where the children were interviewed in the pictures? & does anyone else remember the times when kids (perhaps reluctantly) did the things their parents & other adults told them to do? __________________ If you know the enemy and yourself you need not fear the results of a hundred battles. - Sun Tzu

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
No Kids, Please	sparten	World Affairs Board Pub	63	12-12-2007 04:08 AM
Boston mosque project causes Muslim-Jewish tension	Ray	Political Discussions	27	01-27-2006 12:01 PM
Protect Children: Amnesty... A plea.	Asim Aquil	Political Discussions	23	08-06-2005 23:39 PM
Heroism in the Holy Land: Americans Beaten for Walking Children to School	Aryan	Israeli-Palestinian Conflict	15	01-30-2005 19:37 PM
World selected birthrates	Ironduke	World Affairs Board Pub	5	07-12-2004 23:16 PM

03-11-2008, 19:28 PM	#22 (permalink)
glyn *Military Professional* Join Date: 09-15-06 Location: Penzance, Cornwall UK Posts: 6,396	And all the numb-nuts that bought their records made that 'band' rich!

03-12-2008, 12:50 PM	#26 (permalink)
crooks Green, White 'n Orange *Senior Contributor* Join Date: 10-17-06 Location: Blarney, County Cork, Ireland Posts: 1,291 Country:	On the issue of national pledges in general, I support them, and would support one for Ireland - but they should be inclusive and secular. Alternatively maybe spend 20 minutes of school time every week allowing the kids to talk about how they feel about the country, and what you're proud of or not proud of when it comes to the nation - as a primary school teacher, It could be fun, and constructive...possibly also more meaningful than reciting the same thing over and over until it loses it's impact.

03-12-2008, 13:40 PM	#27 (permalink)
dave lukins *Military Professional* Join Date: 01-04-07 Location: cheshire uk Posts: 4,566 Country:	I wonder if Goldsmith meant "take the oath" or "take the oaf".."and make him a better person." The man is living in Cloud Cookoo land if he thinks this will get off the ground.

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)