Archbishop sparks Sharia law row - Page 2

Bigfella · 02-08-2008, 06:51 AM

Well, he is a bit ...you know, religious.
In my book religious = divorced from reality. [/quote]

Now that I CAN agree with.

On the broader issue, if folk want to forbid the citizens of their countries from formally incorporating any aspects of religious law into their lives via religious courts, tribunals & rulings then I am all for it.

Now, just to show that this is in good faith & based on principle rather than prejudice, we'll start by forbidding the Catholic Church from anulling marriages. Then we'll shut down Jewish religious courts. Then on to the Muslim religious courts.

Sound fair enough?

glyn · 02-08-2008, 07:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bigfella

Well, he is a bit ...you know, religious.
In my book religious = divorced from reality.

Now that I CAN agree with.

On the broader issue, if folk want to forbid the citizens of their countries from formally incorporating any aspects of religious law into their lives via religious courts, tribunals & rulings then I am all for it.

Now, just to show that this is in good faith & based on principle rather than prejudice, we'll start by forbidding the Catholic Church from anulling marriages. Then we'll shut down Jewish religious courts. Then on to the Muslim religious courts.

Sound fair enough?[/quote]

Well, I'm not quibbling, for starters! How about putting it to a vote?

Exarecr · 02-08-2008, 09:21 AM

Last summer in Ontario there was a huge brew-ha-ha over the same issue(sharia law) and the Liberal Government (much to everyone's surprise), quickly nixed the idea. Hopefully this stupid Africa-centric school thing will eventually go the same route. What amazes me is the response from our American friends who act like the whole concept of cultural intimidation as practiced by Muslims is a new concept foreign to American sensibilities. What would you call hundreds of thousands of illegal Mexicans flooding their southern border every year. This kind of cultural invasion will very soon have the U.S. more bilingual then Canada. It is because of their own actions that so many in the west mistrust the Muslim agenda which to me appears to be one of colonization at the expense and with the leverage of the host countries built in Human rights. Social leeching comes to mind because there is no comparable Muslim answer to the Western concept of inclusion other than destruction of those who don't believe.

brokensickle · 02-08-2008, 14:30 PM

Glyn,

If Christian's, Catholic's, and Anglican's in UK and elsewhere are wrong and dubious for the acceptance of "Sharia" and you, GLYN, are the arbiter of good sense against it ; and conversely when people who are Christian, Catholic, and Anglican who see a problem with Islam and the installation of Sharia Law and speak against it in their own stomping ground and you come out against those who are against it. This strikes me as insane also.

I don't agree with the Arch Bishop of Canterbury and I am a Christian. But being a Christian has no part in my opinion of the matter of the ever present danger posed to your land by Islam and Sharia. You are effectively sending me the message that you just hate religion altogether. But this will not help you in the slightest in your national war against the warriors who are dismantling your country and reconstructing it with the Sharia style law.

It is a as human being that I see the trial you face with Islam. You can continue taking both sides of the issue so as to damn Christianity for your fundamental principles of Atheism. But I am going to continue being a Christian. But being a Christian is not clouding my judgment as it is clouding yours in the matter of affairs in your own homeland.

The point here is not What the Christian's, the Atheist, the Jew's and so forth are are doing. The point is what the invaders of the UK are doing and what a swell job they are doing at it, while every time the subject comes up you find it in your mind to blame someone else and not the real culprit. I don't believe your country is going to win this one with out its focus being properly aimed, else wise you will lose.

Best regards,
Ivan

Well, he is a bit ...you know, religious.
In my book religious = divorced from reality. [/quote]

This is so much tripe.^^^^^^^Why do you say stuff like this?

glyn · 02-08-2008, 16:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brokensickle

[size="5"][color="navy"][font="Garamond"][i]Glyn,

If Christian's, Catholic's, and Anglican's in UK and elsewhere are wrong and dubious for the acceptance of "Sharia" and you, GLYN, are the arbiter of good sense against it ; and conversely when people who are Christian, Catholic, and Anglican who see a problem with Islam and the installation of Sharia Law and speak against it in their own stomping ground and you come out against those who are against it. This strikes me as insane also.

I don't agree with the Arch Bishop of Canterbury and I am a Christian. But being a Christian has no part in my opinion of the matter of the ever present danger posed to your land by Islam and Sharia. You are effectively sending me the message that you just hate religion altogether. But this will not help you in the slightest in your national war against the warriors who are dismantling your country and reconstructing it with the Sharia style law.

It is a as human being that I see the trial you face with Islam. You can continue taking both sides of the issue so as to damn Christianity for your fundamental principles of Atheism. But I am going to continue being a Christian. But being a Christian is not clouding my judgment as it is clouding yours in the matter of affairs in your own homeland.

The point here is not What the Christian's, the Atheist, the Jew's and so forth are are doing. The point is what the invaders of the UK are doing and what a swell job they are doing at it, while every time the subject comes up you find it in your mind to blame someone else and not the real culprit. I don't believe your country is going to win this one with out its focus being properly aimed, else wise you will lose.

Well, he is a bit ...you know, religious.
In my book religious = divorced from reality.

This is so much tripe.^^^^^^^Why do you say stuff like this?[/quote]

I like your choice of font, weight and colour.

It looks nice, doesn't it? However you completely miss the point of my post. I suspect the reason for this is that your adherence to religion prevents you from seeing the obvious. And in that you are no different to members of all other faiths. Purblind. As to what you imagine is happening to my country might I suggest that you are not fully informed? This entire brouhaha started because of a ridiculous statement by Englands leading cleric. (The question I ask is why can't the religious types simply stfu?) As to why I say stuff like this (as you so charmingly put it) I think it is because I am truthful. I don't believe in fairy stories, but hey you can if you want to!

crooks · 02-08-2008, 16:18 PM

Howzaboutthis my Anglican friends:

We give you Ratzi the Nazi for a week, he's bound to make an offensive comment to completely make up for the AOC's ill-fated shyte

.

We take Rowan Williams and allow him to grovel and temporarily mend our Church's relations with the Muslim world - then we swap back.

Repeat until they call a Jihad just to simplify things.

Ecumenalism is a great thing!

**Parihaka** · 02-08-2008, 16:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bigfella

Now that I CAN agree with.

On the broader issue, if folk want to forbid the citizens of their countries from formally incorporating any aspects of religious law into their lives via religious courts, tribunals & rulings then I am all for it.

Now, just to show that this is in good faith & based on principle rather than prejudice, we'll start by forbidding the Catholic Church from anulling marriages. Then we'll shut down Jewish religious courts. Then on to the Muslim religious courts.

Sound fair enough?

Good for me

brokensickle · 02-08-2008, 16:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glyn

I like your choice of font, weight and colour.

It looks nice, doesn't it? However you completely miss the point of my post. I suspect the reason for this is that your adherence to religion prevents you from seeing the obvious. And in that you are no different to members of all other faiths. Purblind. As to what you imagine is happening to my country might I suggest that you are not fully informed? This entire brouhaha started because of a ridiculous statement by Englands leading cleric. (The question I ask is why can't the religious types simply stfu?) As to why I say stuff like this (as you so charmingly put it) I think it is because I am truthful. I don't believe in fairy stories, but hey you can if you want to!

I am fully aware of what is happening. My point is what does it happen to do with Christian's if Islam wants to impose Sharia Law on your country. How will bringing Christian's up help you in your problems with Islam. It's a red herring that won't help the problem and things are smelling a bit fishy.

Did the UK form the Arch Bishop's opinion on Islam or is the Arch Bishop forming the UK opinion? Or is Islam forming all of your opinions? Your country has been bathing in liberalism for some time and has effectively eliminated anything smacking of commonsense IMO.

When the Muslim's own your country who will you and yours blame? Most in America are hoping for your success. But believe me I have my doubts and they are getting harder to shake off. I am not your enemy. I am the friend you wish you had. But you don't see that as of yet. I can't help that.

Best Regards,
Ivan

glyn · 02-08-2008, 17:24 PM

[quote=brokensickle;457179][color="RoyalBlue"][size="5"][font="Garamond"][i]I am fully aware of what is happening. My point is what does it happen to do with Christian's if Islam wants to impose Sharia Law on your country.

It will never happen.

How will bringing Christian's up help you in your problems with Islam. It's a red herring that won't help the problem and things are smelling a bit fishy.

Ask the Archbishop of Canterbury. He lives in a palace you know.

Did the UK form the Arch Bishop's opinion on Islam or is the Arch Bishop forming the UK opinion? Or is Islam forming all of your opinions? Your country has been bathing in liberalism for some time and has effectively eliminated anything smacking of commonsense IMO.

Do not believe everything you read in your hysterical press.

When the Muslim's own your country who will you and yours blame?

It will never happen, so I and mine won't need to blame anybody.

Most in America are hoping for your success. But believe me I have my doubts and they are getting harder to shake off.

Relax. Why worry about something that will never happen?

I am not your enemy. I am the friend you wish you had. But you don't see that as of yet. I can't help that.

Negatroid Murgatroyd! I do not see you as a foeman,

(A sparring partner perhaps, but not an enemy).

Bluesman · 02-08-2008, 17:32 PM

And that's a mistake I made with you, glyn.

Glasd that's passed; glad we're on friendly terms now.

bandwagon · 02-08-2008, 21:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brokensickle

I am fully aware of what is happening. My point is what does it happen to do with Christian's if Islam wants to impose Sharia Law on your country. How will bringing Christian's up help you in your problems with Islam. It's a red herring that won't help the problem and things are smelling a bit fishy.

The point is that the Archbishop is looking at it from the viewpoint of the leader of another religion. He wants to promote religious tolerance by seeming to reach out to Muslims, and to bolster the influence of all religions. This is partly because his own church and its doctrine is threatened through a loss of credibility. The problem is that the view from his pulpit has led to an error of judgement, "divorced from reality" -as Glyn says- indeed.

Tronic · 02-08-2008, 21:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brokensickle

The point here is not What the Christian's, the Atheist, the Jew's and so forth are are doing. The point is what the invaders of the UK are doing and what a swell job they are doing at it, while every time the subject comes up you find it in your mind to blame someone else and not the real culprit.

A decade or two down the lane, these culprits that you talk of will not be any "invaders" but homegrown British people. But wait, that is already the case, is it not?

You can solve the wider issue, not by addressing these "invaders", but addressing the role of religion and the state altogether. Make the constitution and the rule of the land the prime text and you will automatically deprive the religious zealots a reason to drag in their own religious laws onto the land.

brokensickle · 02-08-2008, 22:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tronic

A decade or two down the lane, these culprits that you talk of will not be any "invaders" but homegrown British people. But wait, that is already the case, is it not?

You can solve the wider issue, not by addressing these "invaders", but addressing the role of religion and the state altogether. Make the constitution and the rule of the land the prime text and you will automatically deprive the religious zealots a reason to drag in their own religious laws onto the land.

But maybe I'm misunderstanding you,

What about the UK's current constitution. Is it up for grabs?

While I agree with your general premise, the change of style is for the foreigner to change their ways to adapt to the host nation and its constitution. Not the other way around.

Regards, Ivan

brokensickle · 02-08-2008, 22:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bandwagon

The point is that the Archbishop is looking at it from the viewpoint of the leader of another religion. He wants to promote religious tolerance by seeming to reach out to Muslims, and to bolster the influence of all religions. This is partly because his own church and its doctrine is threatened through a loss of credibility. The problem is that the view from his pulpit has led to an error of judgement, "divorced from reality" -as Glyn says- indeed.

I don't think he is crazy because he is a Christian. No, I think he's crazy because he lacks good judgment.

Many people are crazy and it is not a Christian phenomenon, it is a frailty of man. There are crazy Atheist and if you want I can go down the list and that road. But for the sake of time and point I will refrain.

Ivan

dave lukins · 02-08-2008, 22:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brokensickle

I don't think he is crazy because he is a Christian. No, I think he's crazy because he lacks good judgment.

Many people are crazy and it is not a Christian phenomenon. There are crazy Atheist and if you want I can go down the list and that road. But for the sake of time and point I will refrain.

Ivan

Thank God I'm an Athiest

02-08-2008, 14:30 PM	#19 (permalink)
brokensickle *Senior Contributor* Join Date: 10-28-06 Posts: 813	Well, Well... Glyn, If Christian's, Catholic's, and Anglican's in UK and elsewhere are wrong and dubious for the acceptance of "Sharia" and you, GLYN, are the arbiter of good sense against it ; and conversely when people who are Christian, Catholic, and Anglican who see a problem with Islam and the installation of Sharia Law and speak against it in their own stomping ground and you come out against those who are against it. This strikes me as insane also. I don't agree with the Arch Bishop of Canterbury and I am a Christian. But being a Christian has no part in my opinion of the matter of the ever present danger posed to your land by Islam and Sharia. You are effectively sending me the message that you just hate religion altogether. But this will not help you in the slightest in your national war against the warriors who are dismantling your country and reconstructing it with the Sharia style law. It is a as human being that I see the trial you face with Islam. You can continue taking both sides of the issue so as to damn Christianity for your fundamental principles of Atheism. But I am going to continue being a Christian. But being a Christian is not clouding my judgment as it is clouding yours in the matter of affairs in your own homeland. The point here is not What the Christian's, the Atheist, the Jew's and so forth are are doing. The point is what the invaders of the UK are doing and what a swell job they are doing at it, while every time the subject comes up you find it in your mind to blame someone else and not the real culprit. I don't believe your country is going to win this one with out its focus being properly aimed, else wise you will lose. Best regards, Ivan Well, he is a bit ...you know, religious. In my book religious = divorced from reality. [/quote] This is so much tripe.^^^^^^^Why do you say stuff like this? __________________ "Evil opposes freedom and uses those who pervert it as pawns to destroy it." Last edited by brokensickle : 02-08-2008 at 14:37 PM.

02-08-2008, 16:18 PM	#21 (permalink)
crooks Green, White 'n Orange *Senior Contributor* Join Date: 10-17-06 Location: Blarney, County Cork, Ireland Posts: 1,318 Country:	Howzaboutthis my Anglican friends: We give you Ratzi the Nazi for a week, he's bound to make an offensive comment to completely make up for the AOC's ill-fated shyte . We take Rowan Williams and allow him to grovel and temporarily mend our Church's relations with the Muslim world - then we swap back. Repeat until they call a Jihad just to simplify things. Ecumenalism is a great thing! __________________ 'An neart de an tir, an gra den daonra agus an gloir de Eireann'.

02-08-2008, 17:32 PM	#25 (permalink)
Bluesman WAB Bartender *Defense Professional* *Military Professional* Join Date: 11-24-04 Location: Vacaville, CA. Posts: 7,468 Country:	And that's a mistake I made with you, glyn. Glasd that's passed; glad we're on friendly terms now. __________________ "The quickest way of ending a war is to lose it, and if one finds the prospect of a long war intolerable, it is natural to disbelieve in the possibility of victory." - George Orwell

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02-08-2008, 06:51 AM	#16 (permalink)
Bigfella *Senior Contributor* Join Date: 01-12-07 Location: Melbourne Posts: 892 Country:	Well, he is a bit ...you know, religious. In my book religious = divorced from reality. [/quote] Now that I CAN agree with. On the broader issue, if folk want to forbid the citizens of their countries from formally incorporating any aspects of religious law into their lives via religious courts, tribunals & rulings then I am all for it. Now, just to show that this is in good faith & based on principle rather than prejudice, we'll start by forbidding the Catholic Church from anulling marriages. Then we'll shut down Jewish religious courts. Then on to the Muslim religious courts. Sound fair enough?

02-08-2008, 09:21 AM	#18 (permalink)
Exarecr *Military Professional* Join Date: 10-18-07 Location: Kingston Ontario Canada Posts: 457 Country:	Last summer in Ontario there was a huge brew-ha-ha over the same issue(sharia law) and the Liberal Government (much to everyone's surprise), quickly nixed the idea. Hopefully this stupid Africa-centric school thing will eventually go the same route. What amazes me is the response from our American friends who act like the whole concept of cultural intimidation as practiced by Muslims is a new concept foreign to American sensibilities. What would you call hundreds of thousands of illegal Mexicans flooding their southern border every year. This kind of cultural invasion will very soon have the U.S. more bilingual then Canada. It is because of their own actions that so many in the west mistrust the Muslim agenda which to me appears to be one of colonization at the expense and with the leverage of the host countries built in Human rights. Social leeching comes to mind because there is no comparable Muslim answer to the Western concept of inclusion other than destruction of those who don't believe.

02-08-2008, 17:24 PM	#24 (permalink)
glyn *Military Professional* Join Date: 09-15-06 Location: Penzance, Cornwall UK Posts: 6,886	[quote=brokensickle;457179][color="RoyalBlue"][size="5"][font="Garamond"][i]I am fully aware of what is happening. My point is what does it happen to do with Christian's if Islam wants to impose Sharia Law on your country. It will never happen. How will bringing Christian's up help you in your problems with Islam. It's a red herring that won't help the problem and things are smelling a bit fishy. Ask the Archbishop of Canterbury. He lives in a palace you know. Did the UK form the Arch Bishop's opinion on Islam or is the Arch Bishop forming the UK opinion? Or is Islam forming all of your opinions? Your country has been bathing in liberalism for some time and has effectively eliminated anything smacking of commonsense IMO. Do not believe everything you read in your hysterical press. When the Muslim's own your country who will you and yours blame? It will never happen, so I and mine won't need to blame anybody. Most in America are hoping for your success. But believe me I have my doubts and they are getting harder to shake off. Relax. Why worry about something that will never happen? I am not your enemy. I am the friend you wish you had. But you don't see that as of yet. I can't help that. Negatroid Murgatroyd! I do not see you as a foeman, (A sparring partner perhaps, but not an enemy).

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