Parihaka

Sorry too cryptic for me, I don't know anything about Turkeys 2002 economic crisis or Europe and the US's support for the party. Could you forgive my ignorance and give me an overview of what happened/is happening?

Big K

no no, this is my ignorance you dont have to know all these...but some members (not Turkish ones) knowing too much about Turkey thats why sometimes i act like everybody knows everything)

btw, i am afraid of going off-topic, so i'll continue by Private Mesaging is that ok?

but if you excuse me now i'll go home to sleep for a while and continue tomorrow...ok?

thanks

regards

Kerem

__________________
I'm not willing to remain silent even there will be no effect when i say.

Trooth

Now, that is the rub. The people perpetrating the terrorism were by and large politically accessible, due process allowing of course although there were a few examples of due process being a parallel project carried out by civilian parts of the security forces (if you see what i mean). And of course there was a complete suspension of due process for a time (internment).

In terms of the funding they were politically inaccessible. Completely. Of course their names addresses etc were well known but i think SAS snatch squads in Massachusetts et al would have been frowned upon.

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The world as it should be at surrealscoop.blogspot.com

Parihaka

Sure thing matey.

dalem

Too bad. I can bet there were a few idjits at the Kinvara Pub in Brookline, MA that could've used a few kicks to the face.

-dale

JAD_333

Kerem:

You are assuming that we are not calm about this topic. What is true is that we do not know the Koran as well as you and other Muslims do. We've heard many things and we're working through them to getter a better understanding of them, or even a refutation.

I am suprised you do not know of anyone from political Islam. Perhaps the term is badly designed. I would consider people of Bin Ladden's type to be on the list along with non-terrorist leaders who profess the same political concepts as he does.

To be sure there are severe social problems in the ME, but we weren't for the moment speaking of them, but rather whether or not it is true that the Koran is misinterpreted by some political leaders in the ME for political purposes. And secondly, if that IS true, why are are so few Muslim voices critical of this misuse of Islam?

I believe the reason is fear of deadly retaliation. Terror works in this way.

__________________
To be Truly ignorant, Man requires an Education. (Plato)

Big K

JAD,

heres my answers

i know that you do not know Kuran-i Kerim as we do(btw we also know very little of it), thats why i quote from Kuran. some members are very misinformed. they see Islam as an Evil-kind, an enemy of the humanity or something worse. you know some members sad somethings like "awaken men of west! Islam is coming to kill you!!!"

listen mate, i am not a religious person but i am very uncomfortable with the Islam taken for the reason of terrorism.

Islam is the first victim of terrorism not the reason...

yes of course i know them but i wanted to show that as a Muslim i do not recognize them as any kind of leader for Islam. Millions of Muslims are thinking like that.

these figures(Bin Laden type) can not be accepted as "political leaders" nor "Islamic leaders" by me but terrorists leaders.

JAD,

we must speak of these social problems because you are asking why there are so few Muslim voices critial of this misuse of Islam.

you are believing the reason is a possible retaliation, but this is the second step...heres the Maslow's hierarcy of needs...



we must speak of Wests past and current political and social errors about ME,
we have a proverb here: before dipping the awl to someone first dip the pin to yourself...(translation errors are mine)

we must start to speak the situation from the beginning...

my point is:

Islam is the first victim of terrorism,
the voice of other Muslims are somehow depressed,
this depression is not onyl because of terror,
all leaders must inform their people honestly and west must pay attention who do they support for what reason and what are the consequences...

regards

Kerem

gunnut

Did anyone mention that maybe we should change the name of Nazi death camps to "anti-German activity center?" How about the Crusades? Maybe that should be renamed "anti-Christian excursion?" Ku Klux Klan might want to consider changing its name to "anti-caucasian klan" or ACK! for short.

__________________
"Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

gunnut

Is that another attempt at blaming the j00000s?

dalem

Except for all the non-Muslims and Muslim "heretics" who get their arms, legs, and heads blown off when Muhammed al-vestbomb gets his jihad on.

How so? Who is speaking and not heard? Hirsii? Iranian bloggers who are sentenced to death? Who is being "depressed" in nations with free speech?

So, if someone supports someone that the jihadists don't like they deserve to get their bodies blown in half or buried in rubble?

-dale

Big K

what is "the j0000000s" ??? if you mean Jews the answer is a "No" Jewish people wasnt in my mind at all while posting it...

Dalem,

you are still thinking of Iran...you are somehow subconsciously stuck to the idea of "Big enemy" in your mind, dont you?

do you think that Iran is the biggest threat for you?...was it in the past?...do you believe that if you nuke Iran and whole ME and slaughter all Muslim world or enslave them the problems will suddenly comes to an end?...

are you that ignorant?

Big K

no my ignorant friend, no...

do you still believe that world is a place who have only 2 colors?...black and white...

dalem

It was simply an example. I could have used Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan, or any of a number of other major-Islamic places that suppress voices of evolution. So relax.

Irrelevant and not worth engaging on.

-dale

Big K

i am already relaxed dont worry, but it was you who said :

i didnt say such thing...

you are acting like i try to justifiy terrorist activities.

i simply say that Islam can not be taken as a reason of/for terrorism in any way.
who take and use it(Islam) as a tool for manipulating people is comitting the biggest crime against Islam.

we were talking about depressed anti-terrorist Muslim voices right? yes i tried to state some highly possible reasons of why people can not criticise or can not take anti-terrorist actions...that was all...

you dont want to give any credit to the possibility of support given directly or indirectly to these so-called Islamist political leaders by some Western countrys...

who can have a profit from ongoing war on terror? (for an exemple once i watched at discoverychannel that after WW1 German company Bayer found guilty as one of first row responsible of WW1)

for exemple a question: how many percent of Iraqi petroleums revenue goes/belong to the Iraqi govt.?

i dont blame anybody...i am just curious...

Kansas Bear

Who profited from an Iranian revolution led by a muslim cleric?

Hamas

Hezbollah




Spare me the "watched-it-on-discovery-channel" BS. Either give facts backed by documentation, or leave historiography to historians.