chankya

Elephants are scared of pigs though. pigs on fire being better.

__________________
"Of all the manifestations of power, restraint impresses men the most." - Thucydides

Dreadnought

its the way all the americans have sided against me.

Ring a bell? You make it sound like if we agree with one then we all think and act the same because we gang up on people when all we are trying to relate is that we have a much better understanding of what happens there then any other tabloid or country. Dont blame us. Blame the politically correct world not the right and wrong world.

The "evil" wording is only a euphamism. Meaning we are all conspiring against you.

__________________
Fortitude.....The strength to persist...The courage to endure.

supergreek

You call me wrong but dont explain how, what has "its the way all american have sided aganst me" got anything to do with "evil americans".?

all i meant was that i was being ganged up as all of you were saying that i was wrong but you werent explainig how, and since all of you were americans i added the word americans.

Silent Hunter

Not everyone in Gitmo is innocent. There was actually a case of one British guy who was released and took a lie detector test for a Channel Four programme. When the test started looking dodgy, he admitted he'd been to a terrorist training camp.

Should the detainees at Guantanamo get a fair trial? Yes, they should. Should they be properly treated? Yes.

However, I wish that just once the ACLU would organise a mass march against terrorism.

HistoricalDavid

You will never know to a reasonable standard until you do a trial, I think that's pretty much the point.

__________________
HD Ready?

Silent Hunter

That's my opinion. The US military do tend to grab people on evidence, accurate or not.

HistoricalDavid

Which is why I don't understand why they dilly-dally so much with the prisoners. Maybe they have manpower problems in the lawyer department but then again surely it's worth it, considering what can only be bad PR?

Silent Hunter

I think one of their arguments is compromising intelligence. You start having to name sources or make strong suggestions in a court of law, all you need is someone on the suspect's legal team (if they are guilty) to be an "Al-Qaeda" spy, make a phone call and your source will end up dead on camera.

Gun Grape

These are not badly treated "Inmates". This is the in processing yard for newly transfered detainees. These are new arrivals. They are shackled because they are not yet in a secure part of the yard and they have few guards. Mask are on their face because it keeps them from spitting in the guards .

Not an example of, once processed in, where they are kept or how they are treated. I wager that you would find the same type of procedures for in processing at any prison that receives high security or high threat prisoners.

Here are some pictures of the detention areas at Gitmo

Guantanamo Bay - Camp Delta

They live better than I did when I was in Gitmo in 1994. And I know they eat better.

Silent Hunter

While I'm sure torture has taken place at Guantanamo, I suspect at least some of the released detainees are lying to get publicity. No evidence for that, just my opinion.

HistoricalDavid

What, there's no witness protection programme?

And with spies at that level, you have much bigger problems than just PR I suppose.

Silent Hunter

I meant agents out among Al-Q in the field.

Bluesman

Look, all you nuggets like greek and David that want to grant illegal enemy combatants trials and access to courts and lawyers and rules of evidence and all the procedures and motions and trickery that lawyers are paid for:

WE ARE IN THE MIDDLE OF A WAR! I would've thought that would be obvious. As obvious as the absolute imperative of winning same, and just how the hell are we supposed to do that, when whole units get called to testify, and careful evidence collection is required, with chains of custody and investigative qualifications and forensic standards expected to be upheld so that 'crime scenes' and witness statements aren't contaminated...

Look, let me ask you a question: would any of you civil libertarians that are so hot to grant all these prisoners we're rounding up - and ALL are taken with a good-faith effort to get the Bad Guys, and leave the others alone - have supported trials for military-age German males taken during the heat of battle in 1945? How 'bout Japanese? We KNOW each able-bodied (and some that weren't so able bodied) males were on-the-spot conscripted into the army during the last days of the collapsing Third Reich and Imperial Japan, so, basically, if you're found ANYwhere within the vicinity of fighting...into the stockade you go. And that was the correct thing to do.

Same here: that guy in Gitmo is NOT just some simple goat-herd on a hillside that the Yanks stormed for the express purpose of throwing anybody with a beard in jail. There's almost ALWAYS a dam' good reason that they're at Gitmo. Sometimes, mistakes are made, and that sucks. The remedy? Do the best we can with tribunals. It's not perfect justice, but I trust the men that are making a good-faith effort. We know they err on the detainee's side sometimes, because we've killed former prisoners on the battlefield subsequent to their release, one only 18 miles from where we caught him the first time.

TRIALS??? You must be mad. Do you even have any idea what the implications are for that? All the stuff I just mentioned, PLUS a hundred other things that nobody has even thought of yet, but a motivated anti-war busybody gadfly of a civil rights leftie lawyer WOULD, and the next thing you know, we're letting real, honest-to-Allah Bad Guys go right straight back to the battlefield, because William Kunstler Jr, Esq. got him off on a technicality.

This is simple madness that's taken hold of ANYbody that calls for real jury trials in wartime for rank-and-file enemy detainees. This is one EXCELLENT example of how the very things that make our society superior and BETTER than our enemies' can be used against us. And the soft-headed among us - looking right at you, greek and David - will get us all killed, if we listen to their romantic, idealistic notions of what's 'fair'. The reason we should be so reluctant to go to war is because it makes things like tribunals - imperfect justice - the best we can do in wartime.

Now, shut up all this goddamned maundering bilgewater about how we're letting down our values when we treat people that play by NO rules and behave like subhuman jungle creatures that have absolutely NO decency nor morality with so VERY much greater care and respect than they're entitled to, if there were any REAL justice at Gitmo.

Because if there WERE justice awaiting those that came to Gitmo, these animals would be waterboarded to extract every bit of intelligence we could get, then once more for their punishment and to train our guys, and finally beaten to death with the iron re-bar taken from the rubble at Ground Zero.

Whew. Felt good to get that off my chest.

__________________
"The quickest way of ending a war is to lose it, and if one finds the prospect of a long war intolerable, it is natural to disbelieve in the possibility of victory."
- George Orwell

Bluesman

I'm not at ALL sure of that. But I'm sure of this because we have the document, to wit: it's in the aQ Big Book of Terrorist Procedure to ALWAYS lie about the treatment received in captivity. The manual states categorically that no matter WHAT happens to you in captivity, if you get to tell anybody a story, make it as blood-curdling as possible.

So, while there's nothing to suggest the first part of your post is true, there certainly is for the last part.

ace16807

Can someone clarify this for me? In the case of an insurgent firing upon collation troops, the collation troops disable him/capture him, and have him detained, he is sent to Guantanamo in due to right?