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Old 12-28-2007, 01:11 AM   #106 (permalink)
Samudra
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The question remains just how out of control this country will get before it falls into the abyss, or rights itself and rids itself of terrorist under any banner.
Neither is going to happen. The country will riot for a week and return to normalcy. You guys in US/West worry too much than us Indians.

It is the PA that rules Pakistan and unless that organization is harmed nothing will happen to the state of Pakistan. And that PA would cut any deal to retain its relevance.
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Old 12-28-2007, 01:12 AM   #107 (permalink)
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Musharraf has done it.
A bold statement; now, why? He is probably in a worse position now, then when she was alive.
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Old 12-28-2007, 01:13 AM   #108 (permalink)
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Neither is going to happen. The country will riot for a week and return to normalcy. You guys in US/West worry too much than us Indians.

It is the PA that rules Pakistan and unless that organization is harmed nothing will happen to the state of Pakistan. And that PA would cut any deal to retain its position.
Yup seems like that.The army will come out in droves.Mushy in t_o_t_a_l control again!
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Old 12-28-2007, 01:17 AM   #109 (permalink)
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A bold statement; now, why? He is probably in a worse position now, then when she was alive.
If there are riots the army is in control.
there is no way elections will be conducted at the decided timeframe.
even if elections are conducted where is oposition?
Americans were supporting Mushy and BB.Now with BB gone Musharraf is the only player left in US hands in the fight against terror.Musharraf will use this to his advantage in forwarding his numerous agenda.
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Old 12-28-2007, 01:25 AM   #110 (permalink)
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Yup seems like that.The army will come out in droves.Mushy in t_o_t_a_l control again!
Hopefully somebody from the Bhutto family is able to fill up the political vacuum. If the most moderate face of Pakistan is Mush/Bhutto then the going or coming of 'moderate' leaders in Pakistan is only of relevance to the West/US not India. Perhaps Nawaz could've made a difference with the Lahore declaration, but with out the support of the PA he was never going far was he ?

As for Mush - the Army may not be loyal to an ex-chief!
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Old 12-28-2007, 01:33 AM   #111 (permalink)
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Hopefully somebody from the Bhutto family is able to fill up the political vacuum.
I sincerely hope that does not happen. It is time to move away from dynastic politics.
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Old 12-28-2007, 01:34 AM   #112 (permalink)
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Hopefully somebody from the Bhutto family is able to fill up the political vacuum. If the most moderate face of Pakistan is Mush/Bhutto then the going or coming of 'moderate' leaders in Pakistan is only of relevance to the West/US not India. Perhaps Nawaz could've made a difference with the Lahore declaration, but with out the support of the PA he was never going far was he ?
Well I doubt if there is anybody big enough to fill her shoes.Or atleast that will take some time.The main loss is to the US.I once saw a cartoon pix somewhere Bush is playing chess on an enormous chess board and Mush BB etc were the chess pieces wheras OBL was on the opposite side.Seems like Bush lost one important chess piece.Earlier they could play BB and mUsh against each other and got results.Now Mushy is the only one left.He is defn going to use this as a bargaining point/hold US hostage in meeting his demands.
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As for Mush - the Army may not be loyal to an ex-chief!
In Pakland you never know!

As for this being done by AQ.It doesnt matter for them who is coming for them whether BB or Mush.In both cases they are at the recving end.And they would better have BB coming against them than mushy who could be ruthless.

Last edited by MarquezRazor : 12-28-2007 at 01:40 AM.
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Old 12-28-2007, 01:36 AM   #113 (permalink)
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I sincerely hope that does not happen. It is time to move away from dynastic politics.
India might not have had Indira and Rajiv without dynastic politics. But then we have Sonia too!

What Pakistan needs is a strong leader. Where that person comes from is immaterial.
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Old 12-28-2007, 02:20 AM   #114 (permalink)
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India might not have had Indira and Rajiv without dynastic politics. But then we have Sonia too!

What Pakistan needs is a strong leader. Where that person comes from is immaterial.
We need strong institutions, and political parties are not immune from that requirement. A PPP with a stated unwavering policy of liberalism, fighting terror and social justice is far more important than a leader of mythical qualities. Kill this mythical leader and you are back to square one - It is much harder to destroy institutions.

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Old 12-28-2007, 02:24 AM   #115 (permalink)
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We need strong institutions, and political parties are not immune from that requirement. A PPP with a stated unwavering policy of liberalism, fighting terror and social justice is far more important than a leader of mythical qualities. Kill this mythical leader and you are back to square one - It is much harder to destroy institutions.
Well said.
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Old 12-28-2007, 02:50 AM   #116 (permalink)
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There was no "interpretation" required when Zia-ul Haq (Punjabi) killed an immensely more popular ZA Bhutto (Sindhi). Didn't happen then, and not likely to happen now. You are free to keep hoping though. Also Musharraf is a "Muhajir".

It will more likely be twisted into another anti-Musharraf/anti Army tirade. The army is already stepping back from politics under Kiyani. Some commentators and analysts are suggesting a longterm postponement of the elections, I disagree. That would be interpreted as "Musharrafs rule" being extended. The elections should still be held as soon as possible.
Sir, I am not hoping any of this as Pakistan's stability is critical for India's very own. I was just responding to everything that is being written and talked about in the MSM and New Media (internet).
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Old 12-28-2007, 02:59 AM   #117 (permalink)
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Random thoughts:

- Musharref is Effed if he postpones, Effed if he holds scheduled elections and wins. But he doesn't seem the type to play to lose.

- Can the PPP pull it out and beat Musharref in the scheduled election?

- Is it a Good Thing if they do?

- Part of me is thinking "better Pakistani chaos today than in 5 years" - how stupid is this thought?

- I really really really really hate AQ and want them all dead.

-dale
Musharraf should have gotten out back in 2004 when he could have. I have this strong feeling that the Army will portray Musharraf of being the root of all evil, dump him and then continue to hold on to power. This way, the popular anti Musharraf wave wins while America's ally the Army still holds on.

Of course time will tell. I hope things stabilize and things don't spiral out of control. We know the situation in Balochistan and NWFP/FATA is unstable. Sindh needs to remain calm for Pakistan's sake.
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Old 12-28-2007, 03:00 AM   #118 (permalink)
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This event in itself is not that big. She was an opposition leader not even the leader of the state. Many state leaders have been assassinated the world over and there was no question raised about the stability of the country.

The issue this time is the overall environment in Pakistan under which events which would normally not cause alarm are doing so now.
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Old 12-28-2007, 03:05 AM   #119 (permalink)
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I have this strong feeling that the Army will portray Musharraf of being the root of all evil, dump him and then continue to hold on to power. This way, the popular anti Musharraf wave wins while America's ally the Army still holds on.
But then see, Who exactly is America's ally? The army itself, or Musharraf?
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Old 12-28-2007, 03:10 AM   #120 (permalink)
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This event in itself is not that big. She was an opposition leader not even the leader of the state. Many state leaders have been assassinated the world over and there was no question raised about the stability of the country.

The issue this time is the overall environment in Pakistan under which events which would normally not cause alarm are doing so now.
That is correct. Forgive me if I am wrong but aren't the Bhutto's roots linked to rich Zamindars in Sindh. That is their power base AFAIK. Yes, Benazir did have mass appeal all across Pakistan, but still in the eyes of many she was the Daughter of Sindh. Albeit one who lived all her life in Britain, but that is how she is perceived.

As it was reported earlier in this topic, riots had broken out in Karachi and Lahore. Nowsahera and Pershawar in the Frontier have also seen violence. These cities and towns aren't strong holds of the Army. Rawalpindi was, and that's where someone killed her.

I don't want to hint at anything. But if the popular perception in Pakistan is that someone or some group in the establishment has done it, then the overall belief would be that the "Punjabi Army" kills Pashtuns, Balochis and now Sindhis. If such a reality is perceived then this could very well be the beginning of the end.

OTOH Al Qaida claiming responsibility and more importantly if the people believe that Al Qaida "did it" .. then in an ironical way this could preserve the integrity of Pakistan for the time being.

Of course someone wiser can feel free to correct me.
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