Tronic

The new video was aired. And that other person climbing the back of the SUV actually appears to be a security person, not sure. And the new video still doesn't give enough evidence of her being shot. But then, are the others, including her family, all lying?

Agnostic, these theories of her death are being brought up by Pakistanis themselves, especially the Pakistani media which is going ballistic over this event. This may just show how much the populace trusts Musharraf's regime.

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Nabha Sparasham Deeptam
-Touch The Sky With Glory

Ray

Extraordinary that the Govt first states that it was by shrapnel wounds and then denies there was any wounds at all

Once the videos are aired, it says all avenues of investigation would be followed, though never has an investigation has revealed anything! All such stuff is laid to rest in mystery, right from Lqiuat Ali's assassination, Zia and so on!

Once the sensation is over, the investigation will be interned in the bones of Benazir and buried six feet deep!

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"Some have learnt many Tricks of sly Evasion, Instead of Truth they use Equivocation, And eke it out with mental Reservation, Which is to good Men an Abomination."

I don't have to attend every argument I'm invited to.

HAKUNA MATATA

texasjohn

Brig. Cheema's mentor!

We Love the Iraqi Information Minister

wkllaw

Did you guys see her son speak, is it just me or does he seem like he's just reading it and doing what he's told rather than speaking to a audience?

Is their any candidate that would appear more fit to take his position?

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Those who can't change become extinct.

Agnostic Muslim

My reply was directed at all those raising the issue.

I never liked or sympathized with Bush until a couple of months after the CJ issue. Observing the Pakistani and Western Media after the emergency was imposed pretty much cemented my support for his efforts in the WoT, including the Patriot Act that I so vehemently opposed.

Musharrf is trying to do the right thing in the WoT, and has lost popularity and credibility with the Pakistani people for it (among other things). The media has never really liked him since the Lal Masjid operation and has worked overtime to discredit him, turning mountains into molehills while obfuscating the sins of his detractors. The party at the forefront of "fighting for democracy" is operating like a monarchy, will we hear any criticism of how inherently "undemocratic" this whole "successor" business is? Of course not.

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Pakistan is not going to be a theocratic state to be ruled by priests with a divine mission - Jinnah

Tronic

Agnostic, I can see your side of the view and I'll agree with you on the fact that Mushy seems to be the best man for the job in Pakistan. But how good he really is, is debateable. Many accuse him of playing a double game (Americans and religious extremists alike). IMO, Pakistan needs another Jinnah to be put back on track; but going by the current attitude of most Pakistanis (or atleast what I percieve it to be), I think Jinnah would make a very unpopular and resented leader in today's Pakistan. What say?

Tronic

wow, poor chaps. Iraqi Army should have themselves shot the man dead for spreading false info.

bull

A country that has faced so mnay bombings on the general public and their own president should have learned that the spot of bomb attack is sacred and needs to be left as it is.

What were those firemen doing there cleaning up the mess?

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What's the difference between people who pray in church and those who pray in casinos?
The ones in the casinos are serious.

Agnostic Muslim

Jinnah would actually be quite popular, and Sindhi to boot!

Seems like our most fervently adored leaders have been Sindhi - MA Jinnah, ZA Bhutto, BB.

You are perhaps referring to his "secular" credentials. I am not sure those would be an issue. The PPP, as a "secular socialist" party, won the majority in 2002 as well - and BB was expected to repeat or improve that performance this time around ("secular" platform again), dogged by her past though she was. A Jinnah, clean from corruption, would simply run away with the election.

Tronic

But Agnostic, you must differentiate between Bhutto's secularism and Jinnah's style of secularism. I imagine that if Jinnah was to come back on the scene, the first thing he would probably do is shut down the madrassas, try to drive the religious mullahs out of parliament, and most probably try to seperate religion and state. He may have created Pakistan in the name of Islam, but from what I have tried to learn about the man, he was much more interested in leading his own nation rather then the former. And I don't know if in today's Pakistan, the society would accept Jinnah's ways. I mean, Lal Masjid provided such a backlash, had it been Jinnah instead of Musharraf, I think there would have been many more Lal Masjids. But then, it is only my opinion. Whats your view?

Agnostic Muslim

Tronic,

An Indian poster once described it best - Jinnah did not want a nation in the name of Islam, he wanted a nation to safeguard the interests of Muslims. I would agree with that, it fits his personal philosophy as well. AS far as shutting down Madrasa's, I wouldn't support it, BB didn't support it and neither would Jinnah. Shutting down those madrassa's that encourage hate and store weapons I support, BB said she would do, and Jinnah would probably support as well.

One must not get carried away and take blanket action against all Madrassas. There are many who stay true to their vision of providing a means of education for the needy. They must come under Govt. oversight though.

Ray

[quote=Agnostic Muslim;442759]Jinnah is not a Sindhi.

He was a Gujrati!

A Mohajir actually when taken in the Pakistani context.

Tronic

Alright, I'll give you that. Though, I still think it is unfair to compare the Bhuttos with Jinnah. Under the "secular" blanket of BB, the Taliban strived and the education system was fed to the dogs, making religious extremists rampant and opening the door for fundoos to do their brainwashing.

Agnostic Muslim

[quote=Ray;442765]Quite true Salim, my mistake.

Tronic:

BB supporting the Taliban cannot be taken as a reflection of current Pakistani society. The US Govt. has and is supporting autocratic regimes, its not a reflection on the US electorate though. Her social policies are more enlightening.

Tronic

Actually, That was in context of referring to the Bhuttos being compared to Jinnah! I don't think the two can possibly be compared. I know many will object, but I truly think that Jinnah was a great leader and in my opinion what drove him to forming Pakistan was to show the Indian leaders of that time how a true secular state should look like [he despised the Congress leaders including Gandhi for supporting religious movements (such as the Khalifat movement) and described them as communal - something which Indian politicians practice to this day -]. It is also a known fact that he was greatly inspired by Ataturk; and that is also why I think Jinnah would without a doubt shut down the madrassas without a second thought. Bhuttos are not even half the length he was. Jinnah should have been a united India's leader; instead, we got Nehru.