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12-28-2007, 21:12 PM
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#181 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samudra
No way. She was standing upright when the attack happened. I don't for a minute believe what GOP says now. Look at this last picture of her taken just seconds before the attack. Her head could not have banged against the sunroof unless somebody tried too hard. Autopsy has been avoided. Bloody friggin HELL! How can you not conduct a post mortem in such a high profile case!!! It is also surprising that the venue of such a high profile attack would be hosed clean by the fire brigade.
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Ever watched a crash test dummy move around inside a car even with a seat belt on? Picture her in slow motion, the full force of the blast hitting her in the head and upper chest. her body moving with the blast, her neck cracking like a whip as the bodies movement is arrested by the edge of the sunroof...
and there was a medical examination. No bullet entry wounds, no bullets in the head, extreme neck trauma....
Why is it people here have a hard time accepting the bomb could kill Bhutto when with the simplest of googles you can see the images of what remains of people caught in those blasts....
Last edited by Parihaka : 12-28-2007 at 21:23 PM.
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12-28-2007, 22:15 PM
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#182 (permalink)
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Postmaster General
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Ralph Peter's article is biased but with journalistic spin. Half truths well packaged.
The Army is the bane of Pakistan and their politicians make hay in the short spell they are in office, before being ousted by the Army.
Musharraf has done good for Pakistan, but then he is no Saint either.
All politicians and world leaders have their feet of clay!
Interesting that no post mortem was done. Just like Zia, where again, no post mortem was done!
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"Some have learnt many Tricks of sly Evasion, Instead of Truth they use Equivocation, And eke it out with mental Reservation, Which is to good Men an Abomination."
I don't have to attend every argument I'm invited to.
HAKUNA MATATA
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12-28-2007, 22:24 PM
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#183 (permalink)
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Silent lurker
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Parihaka
Ever watched a crash test dummy move around inside a car even with a seat belt on? Picture her in slow motion, the full force of the blast hitting her in the head and upper chest. her body moving with the blast, her neck cracking like a whip as the bodies movement is arrested by the edge of the sunroof...
and there was a medical examination. No bullet entry wounds, no bullets in the head, extreme neck trauma....
Why is it people here have a hard time accepting the bomb could kill Bhutto when with the simplest of googles you can see the images of what remains of people caught in those blasts....
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Thank you Sir, I was starting to believe that I was the only person with around to have this question. 
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Administrator @ Defence.pk
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12-28-2007, 22:24 PM
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#184 (permalink)
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Silent lurker
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Benazir's final moments on video:
msnbc.com Video Player
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12-28-2007, 22:39 PM
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#185 (permalink)
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Quote:
One of the doctors who attended to Bhutto said she had a bullet in the back of her neck that damaged her spinal cord before it exited from the side of her head.
Another bullet pierced the back of Bhutto's shoulder and came out through her chest, the doctors said on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to speak to the media.
Bhutto was given an open-heart massage, but the main cause of death was damage to her spinal cord, he said.
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Former PM Bhutto assassinated at Pakistan rally
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A doctor on the surgical team said a bullet in the back of her neck damaged her spinal cord before exiting from the side of her head. Another bullet pierced the back of her shoulder and came out through her chest, he said on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to speak to the media. She was given an open-heart massage, but the spinal cord damage was too great, he said.
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FOXNews.com - Bhutto Assassination Throws Pakistan Into Chaos - International News | News of the World | Middle East News | Europe News
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Dr. Mussadiq Khan, a surgeon who treated the former Prime Minister, said on Friday that she died from shrapnel that hit her on the right side of the skull.
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‘No bullet was found on Benazir’s body’
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ISLAMABAD: Benazir Bhutto was not hit by a bullet but by a shrapnel of the suicide bomb which was triggered exactly when the bomber saw her emerging from her vehicle�s sun roof to wave to the crowds, a top-level meeting presided over by President Pervez Musharraf was informed on Thursday night.
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It was not a bullet, president told at high-level meeting
Incompetent docs?! Should've opened his mouth much later.
Last edited by Samudra : 12-28-2007 at 22:57 PM.
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12-28-2007, 23:25 PM
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#186 (permalink)
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Postmaster General
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Rather confusing.
Who killed Co-ck Robbin?
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12-29-2007, 00:28 AM
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#187 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray
Rather confusing.
Who killed Co-ck Robbin?
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Sir,
Whoever that might be, I think he has done more damage to Pakistan than anyother hostile nation or group ever dreamt of.
She is a Sindhi and a Shia killed by a Punjabi Sunni militant.
I am afraid, this is going to turn into a something else altogether.
I think Neo can tell us more about the internal politics in Sindh.
Pakistan might well be on its way to anarchy.This is not good for India.
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12-29-2007, 00:35 AM
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#188 (permalink)
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Some more details by the medical examiners:
No shrapnel or bullet found in Benazir’s wound
RAWALPINDI: The open-head injury with depressed fracture leading to cardio-pulmonary arrest caused the death of PPP Chairperson Benazir Bhutto, Dr Musaddiq Hussain, the Allied Hospitals chief executive, told a press conference on Friday at Rawalpindi General Hospital (RGH). RGH Medical Superintendent Dr Habib Ahmed Khan and Additional Superintendent Dr Fayyaz Ahmed Khan were also present on the occasion. Dr Hussain said Bhutto was not showing any sign of life when she was taken to the RGH. Bhutto was admitted to the hospital at 5:35pm where surgeons immediately conducted resuscitation, started giving her fluid and kept her on artificial ventilation, he said. He said the doctors shifted Bhutto to operation theatre and continued resuscitation as soon as they found out that her heart was not working. Having noticed that resuscitation was not successful, the doctors opened Bhutto’s chest and pressed her heart with hands, he said. During the whole process, he said, the doctors did not feel Bhutto’s heart beat so they declared her dead at 6:16pm. He said something hit Bhutto’s right temporal region that fractured her skull bones, thrust into her brain and the brain matter was exuding. The oval-shaped wound was 4x5cm wide and 0.5 inch deep, he said. Dr Hussain said, “I believe that some heavy object had hit her because they (doctors) did not find any bullet or shrapnel.” He said there was no wound on her neck or body. He said the doctors had submitted the same report to the Punjab government. Most of those injured in the attack, who were admitted to Allied Hospitals, contradicted Dr Hussain’s statement as they told Daily Times that five shots were fired at Liaquat Bagh in all. Three of the bullets, they said, hit Bhutto, one injured People’s Student Federation (PSF) city president and one missed the target.
Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan
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12-29-2007, 02:09 AM
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#189 (permalink)
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Senior Contributor
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Parihaka
Ever watched a crash test dummy move around inside a car even with a seat belt on? Picture her in slow motion, the full force of the blast hitting her in the head and upper chest. her body moving with the blast, her neck cracking like a whip as the bodies movement is arrested by the edge of the sunroof...
and there was a medical examination. No bullet entry wounds, no bullets in the head, extreme neck trauma....
Why is it people here have a hard time accepting the bomb could kill Bhutto when with the simplest of googles you can see the images of what remains of people caught in those blasts....
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She still was killed when a bomber and gunmen tried to kill her in Rawalpindi the garrisoned HQ of the Pakistan Army. The fine print regarding the root cause ala "core issue" of her death is meaningless. Unless of course you want to find a pin in an haystack while the whole stable's on fire.
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I rant, therefore I am.
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12-29-2007, 02:34 AM
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#190 (permalink)
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Suddenly all of this didn't happen:
DNA - World - 'Doctors struggled to revive Bhutto before declaring her dead' - Daily News & Analysis
Quote:
ISLAMABAD: Doctors at a Rawalpindi hospital struggled for over half-an-hour to revive former Pakistan Premier Benazir Bhutto after she was shot by a suicide attacker, before declaring her dead.
A report sent by the Rawalpindi General Hospital to the Punjab provincial government said all efforts by its doctors to revive Bhutto failed and she was declared dead 41 minutes after she was brought to the emergency department at 5.35 pm local time.
The hospital's report said Bhutto had open wounds on her left temporal bone from which "brain matter was exuding". It said she was not breathing when she was brought to hospital and her pulse and blood pressure "were not recordable".
It said Bhutto was taken to the operation theatre where "immediate resuscitation was started" by a team of doctors headed by the principal of the Rawalpindi Medical College.
Bhutto was hit in the head by a shot fired by the suicide attacker, who subsequently blew himself up near her bulletproof vehicle, killing up to 30 people, including policemen and the Pakistan People's Party (PPP) leader's personal bodyguards.
Bhutto was waving to supporters from the vehicle's sun-roof when she was struck by the bullets. The attack occurred as Bhutto was leaving the Liaquat Bagh ground after addressing a gathering of thousands of her supporters.
The doctors also performed a surgery on Bhutto to carry out an open heart massage but their efforts were in vain. "Left antro-lateral thoracotomy for open cardiac massage was performed," 'Dawn' quoted the hospital's report as saying.
"In spite of all the possible measures, (Bhutto) could not be revived and (was) declared dead at 1816 (6.16 pm) hours."
The report said an autopsy of Bhutto's body was not carried out at the hospital "because the district administration and police had not requested the hospital authorities (for this)".
Bhutto was shot not far from the spot where Pakistan's first Prime Minister Liaquat Ali Khan was shot dead by an assassin on October 16, 1951.
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12-29-2007, 03:08 AM
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#191 (permalink)
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Senior Contributor
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Benazir aide says govt explanation ‘pack of lies’
ISLAMABAD, Dec 28: A top aide to slain opposition leader Benazir Bhutto on Friday rejected the government’s explanation of her death as a “pack of lies”.
The Pakistan interior ministry said Ms Bhutto died when she hit her head on her vehicle’s sunroof as she ducked after a gun and suicide attack on a campaign rally, and that no bullets or shrapnel were found in her.
“It is baseless. It is a pack of lies,” Farooq Naik, Ms Bhutto’s top lawyer and a senior official in her Pakistan People’s Party, told AFP.
“Two bullets hit her, one in the abdomen and one in the head,” Mr Naik said. “Bhutto’s personal secretary Naheed Khan and party official Makhdoom Amin Fahim were in the car and they saw what happened,” he said.
“It is an irreparable loss and they are turning it into a joke with such claims. The country is heading towards civil war.” Interior ministry spokesman Javed Cheema said earlier that the post-mortem on the populist opposition leader found her mortal wound came when she tried to duck after the bomber attacked.
“The government is now claiming that Baitullah Mehsud is responsible,” Mr Naik told AFP. “What is the evidence?”
He added: “She was taken to hospital. She was bleeding. It was a serious security lapse.”—AFP
Benazir aide says govt explanation ‘pack of lies’ -DAWN - Top Stories; December 29, 2007
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12-29-2007, 03:39 AM
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#192 (permalink)
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Join Date: 11-10-04
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Srirangan
The fine print regarding the root cause ala "core issue" of her death is meaningless. Unless of course you want to find a pin in an haystack while the whole stable's on fire.
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Indeed I could say the same. This strong desire to find a Musharraf conspiracy amidst the confusion of a murder by a suicide bomber who may or may not have fired weapons is simply a desire to pin a murder on one group while ignoring the many others who were more likely to have killed her.
1: Musharraf had nothing to gain and everything to loose by her killing.
2: Given the stated desire of OBL, wider AQ and their spiritual brothers in arms the Taliban, and given she was killed by a suicide bomber shortly after another failed attempt again by a suicide bomber, I'll take the obvious for 10 points thanks.
Look on the upside: the army hasn't rebelled or split, Musharraf has determined to hunt the perpetrators and associates throughout FATA, Waziristan and the NWFP, and now there's talk of US special forces being allowed into the area to help.
All her assassination has done is drive the majority of Pakistanis against AQ and into America's camp.
As for the rioting and arson, no offence but that is a fairly regular event that can be sparked by something as simple as a cartoon.
When the Army starts muttering I'll worry. Until then, business as usual, or perhaps advanced.
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12-29-2007, 03:47 AM
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#193 (permalink)
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Pakistan: Al-Qaida behind Bhutto killing
12/28/2007, 6:17 p.m. EST
By MUNIR AHMED
The Associated Press
Quote:
ISLAMABAD, Pakistan (AP) — Pakistan's government asserted Friday that al-Qaida was behind the assassination of Benazir Bhutto, and offered the transcript from a phone tap as proof. Hundreds of thousands mobbed her funeral as the army tried to quell rioting elsewhere that left 27 dead.
President Pervez Musharraf's government also said Bhutto was not killed by gunshots or shrapnel as originally claimed. Instead, it said her skull was shattered by the force of a suicide bomb blast that slammed her against a lever in her car's sunroof.
The new explanations were part of a rapidly evolving political crisis triggered by the death of Bhutto, Musharraf's most powerful foe in the elections. The rioting by Bhutto's furious supporters raised concerns that this nuclear-armed nation, plagued by chaos and the growing threat from Islamic militants even before the killing, was in danger of spinning out of control.
Pentagon officials said Friday they have seen nothing to give them any worries about the security of Pakistan's nuclear arsenal.
While many grieving Pakistanis turned to violence, hundreds of thousands paid their last respects to the popular opposition leader as she was placed beside her father in a marble mausoleum in the Bhutto ancestral village in southern Sindh province.
"I don't know what will happen to the country now," said mourner Nazakat Soomro, 32.
The government said it would hunt down those responsible for her death in the lawless tribal areas along the Afghan border where Osama bin Laden and other al-Qaida leaders are thought to be hiding.
"They will definitely be brought to justice," Interior Ministry spokesman Javed Iqbal Cheema said.
The government released a transcript Friday of a purported conversation between militant leader Baitullah Mehsud and another militant.
"It was a spectacular job. They were very brave boys who killed her," Mehsud said, according to the transcript. The government did not release an audiotape.
Cheema described Mehsud as an al-Qaida leader who was also behind most other recent terror attacks in Pakistan, including the Karachi bomb blast in October against Bhutto that killed more than 140 people.
Mehsud is thought to be the commander of pro-Taliban forces in the tribal region of South Waziristan, where al-Qaida fighters are also active.
In the transcript, Mehsud gives his location as Makin, a town in South Waziristan.
This fall, he was quoted in a Pakistani newspaper as saying that he would welcome Bhutto's return from exile with suicide bombers. Mehsud later denied that in statements to local television and newspaper reporters.
Cheema announced the formation of two inquiries into Bhutto's death, one to be carried out by a high court judge and another by security forces. Bhutto was assassinated Thursday evening after a rally in the garrison city of Rawalpindi near Islamabad. Twenty other people also died in the attack.
On Thursday, authorities had said Bhutto died from bullet wounds fired by a young man who then blew himself up. A surgeon who treated her, however, said Friday she died from the impact of shrapnel on her skull.
But later Friday, Cheema said those two accounts were mistaken. He said all three shots missed her as she greeted supporters through the sunroof of her vehicle, which was bulletproof and bombproof.
He also denied that shrapnel caused her death, saying Bhutto was killed when she tried to duck back into the vehicle, and that the shock waves from the blast knocked her head into a lever attached to the sunroof, fracturing her skull. The government released a photograph showing blood on the lever.
Denying charges the government failed to give her adequate security protection, Cheema said it was Bhutto who made herself vulnerable and pointed out that the other passengers inside Bhutto's bombproof vehicle were fine.
"I wish she had not come out of the rooftop of her vehicle," he said.
Bhutto's death sparked deadly rioting that killed at least 27 people, according to an Interior Ministry official who spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to speak to the media.
Rioters in the southern city of Karachi torched 500 vehicles, 13 banks, seven gas stations and two police stations, police chief Azhar Farooqi said. The violence killed 13 people, including five workers in a garment factory that was set ablaze, police said. A shootout between rioters and police wounded three officers, police said.
Another six people died from suffocation in Mirpurkhas, about 200 miles northeast of Karachi, when a bank building was set on fire, said Ghulam Mohammed Mohtaram, the top civilian security official in Sindh province.
About 7,000 people in the central city of Multan ransacked seven banks and a gas station and threw stones at police, who responded with tear gas. Media reports said 200 banks were attacked nationwide.
Vandals also burned 10 railway stations and several trains across Sindh province, forcing the suspension of all train service between Karachi and the eastern Punjab province, said Mir Mohammed Khaskheli, a senior railroad official.
An Associated Press reporter saw nine cars of a train completely burned. Witnesses said all the passengers were pulled out before the train was torched.
Desperate to quell the violence, the government sent troops into the streets of Hyderabad, Karachi and other areas in Sindh. In Hyderabad, the soldiers refused to let people out of their homes, witnesses said.
The army readied 20 battalions of troops for deployment across Sindh if they were needed to stop the violence, according to a military statement.
"We will sternly deal with those who are trying to create disorder," Cheema said.
Paramilitary rangers were also given the authority to use live fire to stop rioters from damaging property in the region, said Maj. Asad Ali, the rangers' spokesman.
"We have orders to shoot on sight," he said.
Many cities were nearly deserted as businesses closed and public transportation came to a halt at the start of three days of national mourning for Bhutto.
Prime Minister Mohammedmian Soomro said the government had no immediate plans to postpone Jan. 8 parliamentary elections, despite the violence and the decision by Nawaz Sharif, another opposition leader, to boycott the poll.
"Right now the elections stand where they were," he told a news conference.
The United States, which sees Pakistan as a crucial ally in the war on terror, was counting on Musharraf to proceed with the vote in the hope it will cement steps toward restoring democracy after the six-week state of emergency he declared last month.
Keeping the election on track was the biggest immediate concern in sustaining an American policy of promoting stability, moderation and democracy in Pakistan, U.S. officials said Friday.
Bhutto's death left her populist party without a clear successor. Her husband, Asif Ali Zardari, who was freed in December 2004 after eight years in detention on graft charges, is one contender to head the party although he lacks the cachet of a blood relative from the Bhutto clan's political dynasty.
Throughout the day, hundreds of thousands of mourners arrived in Bhutto's hometown of Garhi Khuda Bakhsh in tractors, buses, cars and jeeps for her funeral cortege and burial.
Bhutto's plain wood coffin, draped in the red, green and black flag of her Pakistan People's Party, was carried in a white ambulance toward the marble mausoleum about three miles away, passing a burning passenger train on the way.
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Associated Press reporter Lolita C. Baldor in Washington contributed to this report.
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Last edited by Parihaka : 12-29-2007 at 04:01 AM.
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12-29-2007, 03:59 AM
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#194 (permalink)
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Editorial: Benazir’s martyrdom: what next?
Quote:
A spokesman of Al Qaeda has informed the media that his organisation has killed Ms Benazir Bhutto — “a precious American asset” — reminding Pakistan that it is in the midst of a global war. (Al Qaeda Afghanistan commander and spokesman Mustafa Abu Al-Yazid telephoned the Italian news agency AKI to make the claim.) This owning up once again proves Daily Times right when it reported before the arrival of Ms Bhutto from Dubai on October 18 that the terrorist elements in South Waziristan had vowed to kill her through a suicide-bomber. Now it develops that Al Qaeda had to deploy an elaborate piece of disinformation to disarm Ms Bhutto’s suspicion that Al Qaeda was intending to attack her.
Someone in Dubai — Al Qaeda now receives most of its funding from unofficial Arab sources — was made to “inform” her that bureaucrats and politicians identified as “remnants of the Zia period” were intending to kill her. At the same time the Taliban elements in South Waziristan were asked to deny that they had issued any threats. This was followed in the national press by reports and analyses on how Daily Times had got it wrong. But the red herring had appeared in the shape of a letter by Ms Bhutto to President Musharraf about people other than Al Qaeda who were intending to kill her.
When Ms Bhutto arrived in Karachi, she was somewhat disarmed about Al Qaeda. But after the suicide-bombing actually took place killing 150 people, she did change her view and began to include Al Qaeda among the suspects. Despite all the signatures of Al Qaeda, however, the opinion expressed in the national media did not connect the Karachi attempt to Al Qaeda and its war with America. Now that Ms Bhutto has been labelled an “American asset” by the Al Qaeda spokesman, one can put in context the statements by political rivals that she had been sent by the Americans to help America’s cause in Pakistan. Her earlier condemnation — she was alone among the opposition politicians — of the Lal Masjid terrorism in Islamabad, was also linked by her detractors to her “toeing of the American line just like President Musharraf”.
However, despite the realisation that Al Qaeda was now targeting her, she continued to name Al Qaeda and its Taliban auxiliary as the foremost danger for Pakistan. And this she said without fear of the possibility that she could be identified as a supporter of President Musharraf — against whom she was now campaigning — and the Americans. Her last address contained the reference. It should be noted that until after Al Qaeda had admitted to the killing, no one appearing on the TV channels clearly connected the assassination to Al Qaeda. Such is the state of Pakistani popular denial about Al Qaeda; such is the fear of being politically damaged through naming Al Qaeda.
The PMLN chief Mr Nawaz Sharif made an emotional statement immediately after Ms Bhutto’s death, which no one can doubt, but moments later, in another statement, he announced his party’s boycott of the January elections. This clearly means the revival of APDM where the Jama’at-e Islami’s Qazi Hussain Ahmad has already announced continuous agitation till the elections are called off and the government steps down. Once again, Mr Sharif has made a hasty decision. He should have waited for the decision of the PPP in this regard and gone along with it since he had opted to participate after consulting Ms Bhutto. However, whether the PPP will be steadfast in its resolve to participate in the January elections remains to be seen.
The boycott and the agitation by the political parties that follows will certainly enhance the strategy of the terrorists who may be expected to lend a hand. There will be a prolonged state of disorder without any clear result because the Musharraf regime will not surrender easily and, if it surrenders, there is no knowing if order, and what sort of order, will prevail thereafter. That is the crucial issue. Surely, the political parties should know that they will gain their strength only from the 2008 elections and will stamp their authority on Islamabad only with the vote of the people. Another emergency or emergency-plus with the army in charge of civilian affairs would throw the country back many decades.
Elections should be postponed until after the 40 days mourning period of the PPP is over to allow it to recover from the shock and take the crucial decisions that have to be taken. The decision to participate would be the right decision under the circumstances unless the PPP leadership wants to go into a long political eclipse and ignore the challenge accepted by their departed leader. The vote bank is galvanised now, but if the party abstains, the same vote bank will be cannibalised by the other parties that favour the boycott. The decision to participate should be the natural conclusion after the confession made by Al Qaeda.
The political instincts of the politicians fishing for the anti-PPP vote in Punjab will incline them to exploiting the situation created by Ms Bhutto’s demise. They will go into agitation mode because they fear that they may not be able to score well enough to make the next government and may rely on the boycott agitation to get in without the hardship of arousing popular support. They may even dip into the PPP vote-bank by pretending to identify emotionally with Ms Bhutto’s cause, but since politics is all about getting to power there is no bar on cut-throat methods to achieve this objective. If the PPP decides to boycott, it may lose its vote-bank forever.
Those who say that Pakistan “should not fight America’s fight” and that Al Qaeda doesn’t exist because no one knows where its headquarters is located should finally renew their knowledge about the organisation. It is not headquartered in Sudan, as one retired military officer said on TV, but in Pakistan with an army at its beck and call in our Tribal Areas that is a force to reckon with. Before dubbing it an American war our analysts should ponder the chaos that will ensue in an internationally isolated Pakistan with Al Qaeda lodged in its guts. What may have begun as America’s war is now Pakistan’s war. *
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12-29-2007, 05:04 AM
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#195 (permalink)
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Senior Contributor
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Now if somebody tells me that kind of bleeding occurred from somebody's head by knocking against a sunroof handle I would have to assume that most pobably the head was smashed beyond recognition.
Last edited by MarquezRazor : 12-29-2007 at 05:14 AM.
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