Pope says China "suffocates" faith, urges dialogue

wkllaw · 06-30-2007, 08:53 AM

Quote:

Pope says China "suffocates" faith, urges dialogue
Sat 30 Jun 2007, 9:36 GMT

[-] Text [+] By Phil Stewart

VATICAN CITY, June 30 (Reuters) - Pope Benedict on Saturday decried Chinese state restrictions on religious freedom that "suffocate" the Church and sow division amongst that country's Catholics, in his most significant address on China to date.

But the Pontiff also extended an olive branch to Beijing, saying he hoped to strike an agreement with officially atheist China, where millions of Catholics worship under a state-controlled church that does not recognise his authority.

Others worship in "underground" churches loyal to the Holy See.

"It is true that in recent years the Church has enjoyed greater religious freedom than in the past," the Pope said.

"Nevertheless, it cannot be denied that grave limitations remain that touch the heart of the faith and that, to a certain degree, suffocate pastoral activity."

China has had no diplomatic ties with the Vatican since 1951, two years after the Communist takeover, something the Pope said he wanted to change.

"The Holy See remains open to negotiations, so necessary if the difficulties of the present time are to be overcome," the Pope wrote.

Although the Vatican estimated there are only between 8 million and 12 million Catholics in China, the Pope expressed hope that it would prove fertile ground for evangelisation in the future.

"During the first Christian millennium the Cross was planted in Europe and during the second in the American continent and in Africa," the German-born Pope wrote, in a letter addressed to China's bishops, priests and faithful.

"During the third millennium a great harvest of faith will be reaped in the vast and vibrant Asian continent."

REACHES OUT TO BISHOPS

Tensions have repeatedly flared over the appointment of bishops. China refuses to allow the Vatican to appoint them, saying this would be interference in its internal affairs.

But the Pope said the ability to appoint bishops is a fundamental part of the ability to fully "exercise ... the right of religious freedom".

He also said bishops appointed without Church approval were "illegitimate".

Despite China's actions, the Pope said that all but "a very small number" of the bishops in China had sought the Pope's blessing. Many, he said, had secretly received a "clandestine consecration."

Significantly, the Pope reached out to those bishops who were not yet in communion with the Roman Catholic Church.

He said that as long as they were ordained by other bishops who had Vatican approval, they could exercise their ministry validly, even if they were "illegitimate". He expressed hope they would come into full communion with the Church.

As for the faithful, he urged them to seek out clergy who were in communion with the Pope. But, if that were not viable, the Pope said they should attend Church regardless.

The Pontiff steered clear of one long-time sticking point in relations -- the Holy See's recognition of Beijing's diplomatic rival Taiwan.

Beijing has insisted that diplomatic ties cannot be resumed unless Rome first severs links with Taiwan, which Beijing considers a renegade province.

I demand that we not talk to them. We need to stop the underground churches before they get worse. In the worst case scenario, we could have a religous nut preaching about overthrowing the government and creating religous freedom and start another war like the taiping rebellion.

ArmchairGeneral · 06-30-2007, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wkllaw

I demand that we not talk to them. We need to stop the underground churches before they get worse. In the worst case scenario, we could have a religous nut preaching about overthrowing the government and creating religous freedom and start another war like the taiping rebellion.

Who is "them," who is "we," and what's wrong with underground churches?

crooks · 06-30-2007, 13:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wkllaw

I demand that we not talk to them. We need to stop the underground churches before they get worse. In the worst case scenario, we could have a religous nut preaching about overthrowing the government and creating religous freedom and start another war like the taiping rebellion.

You mean you don't think people are entitled to faith?

REAL faith, not a puppet one that makes a mockery of the religion it claims it is?

wkllaw · 06-30-2007, 19:29 PM

Quote:

Who is "them," who is "we," and what's wrong with underground churches?

I meant that the chinese government should not talk to the the vatican. Underground churches could turn into a cult of sorts. They should be monitored for any dangerous activities.

Quote:

You mean you don't think people are entitled to faith?

REAL faith, not a puppet one that makes a mockery of the religion it claims it is?

People are entitled to faith, but in korea, there are attacks on buddhism by christians. There could be violence if people begin to be divided by this. Religion needs to be monitored in China for any nut preaching like Hong Xiuquan. They might also try to have religion influence politics and bring together religion and state.

Kansas Bear · 06-30-2007, 19:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wkllaw

I meant that the chinese government should not talk to the the vatican. Underground churches could turn into a cult of sorts. They should be monitored for any dangerous activities.

Yeah, they could hijack aircraft and fly them into buildings, or detonate suitcase bombs on buses or trains............

crooks · 06-30-2007, 19:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wkllaw

People are entitled to faith, but in korea, there are attacks on buddhism by christians. There could be violence if people begin to be divided by this. Religion needs to be monitored in China for any nut preaching like Hong Xiuquan. They might also try to have religion influence politics and bring together religion and state.

Er, how?

All Catholic states I can think of are secular, that argument won't stand up to scrutiny, or should I get a list of countries where Catholicism is the primary faith and the status of religious freedom and tolerance there?

I suppose Free Speech doesn't suit China though, best worship the state, it'll take care of you

.

gunnut · 07-01-2007, 03:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wkllaw

I meant that the chinese government should not talk to the the vatican. Underground churches could turn into a cult of sorts. They should be monitored for any dangerous activities.

All religions start as cults.

The most recent examples are Scientology and the Church of Jesus Christ of the Latter Day Saints.

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