Veni Vidi Vici

But thats soooo........... French.

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"Our citizenship in the United States is our national character. Our citizenship in any particular state is only our local distinction. By the latter we are known at home, by the former to the world. Our great title is AMERICANS…" -- Thomas Paine

Julie

French = Defeat.....yeah you're right!

Officer of Engineers

<getting on the soapbox>

Just like to bring some reality back to the forum, less people think the French are worthless. I've served with the French (FREBAT - FREnch BATtalion) in UNPROFOR and they're damned fine soldiers. We came under fire together and we returned fire together.

M21 may snide about the French but even he pointed out the collosal costs the French paid during WWI, Verdun is but one example. To give the Americans their due, yes, they won WWI but they were just the straw that broke the camel's back. No matter how much the Americans want to play that up, they were just a straw. Every other army in that war bled to exhaustion. The war would have ended just about the same time the Americans won it. It would not have been an allied victory but to say the Americans saved France during WWI simply is not true. Everybody would have went home to lick their wounds. The Americans, being a fresh army, did not have any wounds to lick.

By simple logic, the French won far more wars than they lost. They had an empire and to build an empire, wars needed to be won. Napolean was considered a military genius (and he was). He won most of his wars. The Grand Army that invaded Russia was only half French, the others were Italian, Germans, Spanish, Austro-Hungarian, Prussians, etc. People he had have defeated in order to recruit them.

And in recent times, French soldiers have died under American command. Beiruit, Kuwait War, and the Taliban War are recent examples. If these soldiers are good enough to die under American leadership for an American cause, then they at least deserve American respect.

I have no love lost for Chirac. I think he's a two bit dictator wannabe. But I cannot and will not disparage those who served alongside with me and served with honour.

<Getting off the soapbox>

__________________
Chimo

Julie

Ouch...a kick us while we're down in defeat. Point well taken OoE...you're right, we should not forget the lost French soldiers, no matter how ignorant Chirac is. I'll try to stay cleaner while in the soapbox. Respectfully, Julie.

Ray

Colonel,

This site is not opening. Could you help?

www.dod.mil/news/Jun1999/n06231999_9906235.html

Officer of Engineers

Sir

World War II Through Russian Eyes' Hits San Diego



By Jim Garamone

American Forces Press Service


WASHINGTON -- World War II history buffs can now get a
glimpse of what the Russians referred to as "The Great
Patriotic War".

An exhibit entitled "World War II Through Russian Eyes," is
on display through Sept. 30 at San Diego's Balboa Park
Exhibit Hall. Sponsored by the city of San Diego, the
Central Armed Forces Museum of Moscow and the Historical
Achievements Museum of Florida, the show features World War
II from the former Soviet Union's perspective.

Understanding the Russian's view of World War II is central
to understanding the country today, said Talisman. The war
still prompts emotional responses "as if these memories
have been engraved upon their eyes as a screen through
which every Russian views and judges events past, present
and future," he wrote.

Talisman, who also serves as vice chairman of the U.S.
Holocaust Memorial Council and Museum in Washington, said
27 million Soviet citizens died during the war. He said
people walk away from the exhibit with an impression of how
vicious the fighting was on the Eastern Front. "That's part
of the reason for staging this exhibition," he said during
an interview. "The feeling in Russia is that the West
doesn't know anything about what they went through during
the war. And it's true, we don't know history very well."

Talisman and others teach classes on World War II through
Russian Eyes at local San Diego high schools and at Camp
Pendleton Marine base. The classes feature talks by some of
the many Russian veterans who now call San Diego home.
"Even some of the most hard-bitten Marines are amazed at
the loss of life in Russia," Talisman said. "They stay
after the classes speaking to these Russian vets."

The recent popularity of books and films about World War II
make this a perfect time for Americans to learn about the
Soviet contribution to victory, Talisman said. "American
media gives the impression that the Normandy invasion was
the turning point in the war," he said. "[U.S. Army Gen.
Dwight D.] Eisenhower said at the time, if the Russians had
not tied down 5 million Germans on the Russian Front, it's
problematic when D-Day could have happened, if at all."

The exhibition marks the first time many of the artifacts
have been shown outside the former Soviet Union. Soviet
dictator Josef Stalin's great coat and personal 7.62mm
Nagent revolver are displayed as well as Hitler's personal
standard, coat, hat, boots, walking stick and a globe from
the Fuhrer's bunker. Hundreds of paintings, photos and
propaganda posters detail what life was like for the
Soviets.

Soviet dictator Josef Stalin had hoped the non-aggression
pact he had signed with Nazi leader Adolf Hitler in 1939
would hold. That pact divided Poland between Russia and
Nazi Germany. On September 3, 1939, the Nazis invaded
Poland precipitating World War II. Yet almost as soon as
Hitler had subdued Western Europe, he began planning the
offensive against the Soviet Union.

On June 22, 1941, the German Wehrmacht began Operation
Barbarossa. German forces soon laid siege to Leningrad --
the Soviet Union's second largest city -- and entered the
western suburbs of Moscow. German troops were within sight
of the Kremlin when Soviet forces rebuffed the attack.

The exhibit strives to show the suffering the Soviet people
endured, including the German slaughter of thousands of
Ukrainian Jews from Kiev at Babi Yar. The display also
credits the more than a million Soviet partisans who fought
behind German lines, killing nearly 500,000 German troops.
The partisans were instrumental in breaking Nazi supply
lines and tying down soldiers who could have been at the
front.

The exhibit highlights one of the crucial battles of
history -- the Battle for Stalingrad. This industrial city
on the banks of the Volga River became the objective of the
German 6th Army. About 330,000 German troops stormed the
city in August 1942. One Luftwaffe attack alone killed
40,000 civilians in the city. Yet the Soviets dug in and
countered the German offensive, stalking the Germans in the
city's rubble. By January 1943, a mere 12,000 Germans lived
to surrender to Soviet forces.

Other highlights include the Soviet's victory during the
largest tank battle in history -- the July 12, 1943, Battle
of Kursk that involved a total of 1,200 tanks.

Overall, the exhibit traces the path of the Red army and
air force across Eastern Europe and the culminating battle
for Berlin. By World War II's end, in addition to the dead,
German forces had decimated most of the industrialized
portion of the largest country in the world. Nazi troops
had destroyed whole villages and thousands of miles of
railways.

Talisman said people seem most affected by the portion
dealing with the Siege of Leningrad, today called St.
Petersburg. The Nazi's invested the city early in the war.
"Few people in the West knows about the pain the city went
through," he said. Before the Soviets broke the siege after
900 days, 800,000 had died. "Leningrad truly shows the grit
of the Russian Soviet people," he said.

The exhibition travels to Tokyo following its run in San
Diego, and plans are underway for its display in other
major cities. For information check out the exhibit web
site at: www.wwiithroughrussianeyes.com. [link no longer available]

Confed999

I'm on your side...

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No man is free until all men are free - John Hossack
I agree completely with this Administration’s goal of a regime change in Iraq-John Kerry
even if that enforcement is mostly at the hands of the United States, a right we retain even if the Security Council fails to act-John Kerry
He may even miscalculate and slide these weapons off to terrorist groups to invite them to be a surrogate to use them against the United States. It’s the miscalculation that poses the greatest threat-John Kerry

Confed999

Certainly!

Leader

We're not all lost. Just most of us.

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Anon

If you wouldnt've banged that 24yo when you were 14 you're not just misguided, but blind...