you have less than 5 seconds to stop...

execrable · 02-21-2007, 12:18 PM

Worrying Judgement for men to think about

I'm not hugely clear about the rules on quoting from News Sites - this came up elsewhere on another Forum and I thought it might interest the men.

I'll happily edit the thread if I've broken a forum rule but here's the story

Quote:

If a woman consents to having sex with a man but then during intercourse says no, and the man continues, is it rape?

The answer depends on where you live. The highest courts of seven states, including Connecticut and Kansas, have ruled that a woman may withdraw her consent at any time, and if the man doesn't stop, he is committing rape. Illinois has become the first state to pass legislation giving a woman that right to change her mind. But in Maryland--as well as in North Carolina--when a woman says yes, she can't take it back once sex has begun--or, at least, she can't call the act rape.

That was the recent ruling by Maryland's Court of Special Appeals in a case that may soon make its way to the state's highest court and that has captured the attention of feminists and legal experts across the country. Advocates for victims' rights insist it's not just a matter of allowing a woman to have a change of heart. If the law doesn't recognize a woman's right to say no during sex, they say, there is no recourse for a woman who begins to feel pain or who learns her partner isn't wearing a condom or has HIV. Those who are wary of these measures say they're not arguing against having a man stop immediately when a woman no longer wants to have sex, but with how to define immediately.

When the California Supreme Court handed down a ruling in 2003 that codified the withdrawal of consent during sex, Justice Janice Rogers Brown, the lone dissenter, raised that very question. "The majority relies heavily on [the defendant's] failure to desist immediately," she wrote in her minority opinion. "But it does not tell us how soon would have been soon enough. Ten seconds? Thirty? A minute?" Mel Feit, executive director of the National Center for Men, a male-advocacy group based in Old Bethpage, N.Y., says biology is a factor. "At a certain point during arousal, we don't have complete control over our ability to stop," he says. "To equate that with brutal, violent rape weakens the whole concept of rape." His group has created a "consensual sex contract" to be signed before intercourse.

Victims' rights activists don't buy the loss-of-control argument. "It's insulting to men to say they can't stop," says Lisae C. Jordan, legislative counsel for the Maryland Coalition Against Sexual Assault. "Any one of us who's had a toddler walk in on them knows that that's not true. Or a teenager who's had a parent walk in--they stop pretty quickly." Still, even advocates concede it's hard to set a time frame in which sex must cease after consent is taken back. "I don't know where that bright line is," says Scott Berkowitz of the Rape Abuse and Incest National Network. "We'll leave that to juries to decide what's reasonable in each case."

The murkiness surrounding what's reasonable has deepened further with the Maryland case, which was tried in 2004. The accuser and the defendant agree that after he began to penetrate her and she wanted him to stop, he did so within a matter of seconds and did not climax. Even so, during deliberations, the jury sent a note to the judge asking if it was rape if a female changed her mind during the sex to which she consented and the man continued until climax. The judge said it was for them to decide. They convicted the defendant of first-degree rape, among other sex offenses.

My opinion? The guy is in prison - he's definitley guilty of statutory rape with a minor (she was 13) and I have no problem with the charge (unless he's younger than her)

From the story it seems the girl agreed to sex, then withdrew consent. The guy stopped - but it took him 5 seconds to stop - and that is why he's been convicted of 1st Degree Rape.

I don't accept that. In my view he's actually complied with her having changed her mind. Anyhow - worrying times guys... Learn to stop!

execrable · 02-21-2007, 12:19 PM

The link is in the above post but here it is again -

A Time Limit on Rape -- Thursday, Feb. 01, 2007 -- Page 1 -- TIME

jame$thegreat · 02-21-2007, 12:55 PM

I'm sure other rules apply. (I did not read the who thing sorry

) For instance if there are incriminating marks of abuse, which I guess would fall into breaking another law. Kind of like the OJ simpson case, he got cleared on murder but now that he sort of admitted if they find a murder weapon in his possession or something else connected to the murder that is breaking the law he is screwed even though he went to trial for the murder itself.

/rant

(did this make any sense

I just woke up...)

GVChamp · 02-21-2007, 17:35 PM

I'm 20. I can FINISH in 5 seconds if I really want to.

02-21-2007, 18:12 PM

Sex with a 13 year girl is TOTAL TURNOFF.
the man is a sicko..

saambaarblast · 02-21-2007, 23:03 PM

What about fake boobies? Isn't that mis-representation under Federal Trade Commission (FTC) Act and the Lanham Act?

Publius_ · 02-22-2007, 03:17 AM

If she says stop -- it's best not to continue. It's wrong, and it's not worth the trouble.

T_igger_cs_30 · 02-22-2007, 05:07 AM

Why is this even a discussion................SHE WAS 13..........CASTRATE THE ****............and then hurt him

T_igger_cs_30 · 02-22-2007, 05:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by execrable

[url=http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1584786,00.html]. -

Quote:

worrying times guys... Learn to stop

!

Not if you dont go with underage girls its not!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

execrable · 02-22-2007, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T_igger_cs_30

Not if you dont go with underage girls its not!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm afraid you're missing the point - forget it's a 13 year old.

OK, now you're with a sexy 24 year old.

You're having sex and in the middle, she says stop.

5 seconds later you stop.

That is now 1st degree rape.

Why 5 seconds? The problem with that law is down to interpretation of the time you take to hear, cogitate (what if you're slightly drunk and don't quite believe what you heard?) and then stop....

That judgement is not about the 13 year old girl - as I said in my post - there's already a charge for that - it's called statutory rape.

T_igger_cs_30 · 02-22-2007, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by execrable

I'm afraid you're missing the point - forget it's a 13 year old.

OK, now you're with a sexy 24 year old.

You're having sex and in the middle, she says stop.

5 seconds later you stop.

That is now 1st degree rape.

Why 5 seconds? The problem with that law is down to interpretation of the time you take to hear, cogitate (what if you're slightly drunk and don't quite believe what you heard?) and then stop....

That judgement is not about the 13 year old girl - as I said in my post - there's already a charge for that - it's called statutory rape.

Not missing anything you used an example with a 13 year old girl......not very bright in my opinion............

execrable · 02-22-2007, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T_igger_cs_30

not very bright in my opinion............

Haha.. that tickled me.

Unfortunately, the only case so far that has happened was with a 13 year old girl. I won't ask you to read the story up properly or check the Wikipedia article relating to how this has caused a furore in legal circles in the States.

that would be me saying anything to prolong a debate......

T_igger_cs_30 · 02-22-2007, 11:43 AM

[quote=execrable;347579]Haha.. that tickled me.

Unfortunately, the only case so far that has happened was with a 13 year old girl. I won't ask you to read the story up properly or check the Wikipedia article relating to how this has caused a furore in legal circles in the States.

Quote:

that would be me saying anything to prolong a debate......[/

QUOTE]

for once you are right .....well done

execrable · 02-22-2007, 11:59 AM

uhm-hum... I take it you're now going to follow me about on every thread I post into and post meaningless replies because you can't keep up or are unable to comprehend another (and different) POV?

Nice career choice.....

T_igger_cs_30 · 02-22-2007, 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by execrable

uhm-hum... I take it you're now going to follow me about on every thread I post into and post meaningless replies because you can't keep up or are unable to comprehend another (and different) POV?

Nice career choice.....

Dont flatter yourself..........I prefer to follow threads that have meaning and substance

02-21-2007, 12:55 PM	#3 (permalink)
jame$thegreat *Senior Contributor* Join Date: 11-24-04 Location: Brooklyn, New York Posts: 1,075 Country:	I'm sure other rules apply. (I did not read the who thing sorry ) For instance if there are incriminating marks of abuse, which I guess would fall into breaking another law. Kind of like the OJ simpson case, he got cleared on murder but now that he sort of admitted if they find a murder weapon in his possession or something else connected to the murder that is breaking the law he is screwed even though he went to trial for the murder itself. /rant (did this make any sense I just woke up...) __________________ Sometimes things dont end up how they should, a son, a brother, a mentor, a teacher, a cousin, a nephew, a grandson and a god in my eyes. Who knows what he more could have been... Christopher Muzykant April 9, 1976-November 4,2005 My Brother, Always and forever

02-21-2007, 17:35 PM	#4 (permalink)
GVChamp Patron Join Date: 08-25-06 Location: Chicago Posts: 244	I'm 20. I can FINISH in 5 seconds if I really want to. __________________ "The great questions of the day will not be settled by means of speeches and majority decisions but by iron and blood"-Otto Von Bismarck

02-21-2007, 18:12 PM	#5 (permalink)
joey2 Guest Posts: n/a	Sex with a 13 year girl is TOTAL TURNOFF. the man is a sicko.. Last edited by joey2 : 02-21-2007 at 18:27 PM.

02-22-2007, 05:07 AM	#8 (permalink)
T_igger_cs_30 *Military Professional* Join Date: 01-04-07 Location: Canada Posts: 1,943 Country:	Why is this even a discussion................SHE WAS 13..........CASTRATE THE ............and then hurt him __________________ $<img src=http://C:\Documents and Settings\Wayne Smith\My Documents\002...My Pictures border=0 alt= />$ FEAR NAUGHT I don't work here ...I am an analyst!

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02-21-2007, 12:19 PM	#2 (permalink)
execrable Patron Join Date: 02-16-07 Posts: 238	The link is in the above post but here it is again - A Time Limit on Rape -- Thursday, Feb. 01, 2007 -- Page 1 -- TIME

02-21-2007, 23:03 PM	#6 (permalink)
saambaarblast Regular Join Date: 01-31-07 Location: Chateau de Chantilly Posts: 101 Country:	What about fake boobies? Isn't that mis-representation under Federal Trade Commission (FTC) Act and the Lanham Act?

02-22-2007, 03:17 AM	#7 (permalink)
Publius_ Regular Join Date: 09-25-05 Posts: 63 Country:	If she says stop -- it's best not to continue. It's wrong, and it's not worth the trouble.

02-22-2007, 11:59 AM	#14 (permalink)
execrable Patron Join Date: 02-16-07 Posts: 238	uhm-hum... I take it you're now going to follow me about on every thread I post into and post meaningless replies because you can't keep up or are unable to comprehend another (and different) POV? Nice career choice.....

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