Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 49
Like Tree44Likes

Thread: How India mistreats Kashmir

  1. #1
    A Self Important Senior Contributor troung's Avatar
    Join Date
    03 Aug 03
    Posts
    7,341

    How India mistreats Kashmir

    How India mistreats Kashmir
    How India mistreats Kashmir – Global Public Square - CNN.com Blogs
    By Kapil Komireddi, Special to CNN

    Editor’s note: Kapil Komireddi is an Indian journalist. He has written from South Asia, Eastern Europe, and the Middle East. The views expressed are his own.

    Returning home from a visit to Pakistan in 2009, I was invited to have tea with one of the Indian army officials stationed on the international border. Inside his office, I was introduced to another traveler, a middle-aged Kashmiri man who was also on his way back from Pakistan. The three of us spent the next two hours talking about Pakistan. I spoke fondly of Lahore, but the Kashmiri was full of scorn.

    “Take my word on this, sir: Pakistan will break apart,” he told the officer. “They are all starving over there.” Later that day, on our way to Delhi, the Kashmiri spoke with great feeling about his friends in Pakistan and the wedding he’d just attended there. He had put on a performance for the officer, demonstrated his commitment to India by eagerly ratifying the most common Indian prejudices about Pakistan. It was a practiced effort. “I am happy in India,” he later told me. “But our loyalty is always questioned.”

    People in abusive relationships must adopt such displays of intense loyalty, and Kashmiris have been in an abusive relationship with the Indian state for more than two decades. What’s striking, particularly in a country that takes so much pride in its democracy, is the refusal of a large number of Indians even to acknowledge this reality. India’s much-revered public intellectuals and its voluble news media maintain a near total silence on the subject. Insulated from any serious debate on New Delhi’s conduct in Kashmir, many Indians fall back on old shibboleths to make sense of what is happening there. In these uncomplicated narratives, Kashmiri Muslims who speak up against New Delhi are naturally Pakistan-sponsored jihadis; Indian armed forces are incapable of wrongdoing; and Kashmir, without exception, is an “integral part” of India.

    It’s a belief system that asserts India’s ownership of Kashmir by effectively disenfranchising Kashmiris. Kashmiris are demonized as fifth columnists and denied the treatment extended to “fellow citizens” in other parts of the country. But they are expected, in all circumstances, to pledge constant allegiance to India.

    This explains why even the most benign reproof of New Delhi by Kashmiris can prompt so many Indians to erupt with self-righteous indignation. This happened on Monday, when Mustafa Kamal, a senior leader of Jammu & Kashmir’s ruling National Conference Party, upbraided New Delhi for not bringing down troop levels in Kashmir. The Indian Army continues to function under the Armed Forces Special Powers Act (AFSPA) in Kashmir. The AFSPA is one of the cruelest pieces of legislation on India’s statue books. It provides immunity from prosecution to the troops operating in Kashmir and other restive regions of the country.

    India advertises itself to the planet as the world’s largest democracy, a nation of laws, but consider the plight of the Kashmiris who are persecuted on the mere presumption of being enemies of Indian democracy – and then denied the legal remedies of democratic India to challenge that premise. The Indian government has invoked the AFSPA in more than 40 instances to prevent soldiers from being prosecuted for crimes ranging from torture and murder to rape.

    None of this has produced any public outcry in India – unlike Kamal’s remarks. Speaking to a gathering of his party workers, Kamal bemoaned, somewhat idealistically, India’s refusal to sign a “no-war” treaty with Pakistan, before saying, as part of a much larger conversation about resolving the Kashmir crisis, that “I feel our enemy is our own country, not Pakistan.” This was enough to sound the jingoist tocsins across India. Times Now, the broadcasting arm of the Times of India and India’s answer to Fox News, almost exploded with nationalist rage. “Can Mustafa Kamal get away by calling India the enemy and Pakistan the friend?” asked one of the channel’s anchors. The Times of India published stories accusing Kamal of describing India as an enemy.

    It’s clear from Kamal’s statement that he acknowledged India as “our country” and, as a citizen, placed the burden of responsibility for Kashmir on New Delhi rather than Islamabad. But the effort to portray him as a separatist only intensified. Kamal appeared this week on Times Now’s flagship show to clarify his position. But the host, Arnab Goswami, a blowhard whose act combines the buffoonery of Glenn Beck with the belligerence of Mark Levin, cut him off. “Is India not your country?” he shouted. It was an absurd and humiliating inquisition. I don’t know if Kamal ever harbored separatist sentiments. But if he comes out in favor of Kashmir’s secession tomorrow, nobody should be surprised.

    Contrast this “controversy” with the arid reaction to the discovery just last year of unmarked graves containing more than 2,000 bodies in Kashmir. There were no angry newscasters demanding answers from the Indian government. Extraordinarily, a discovery of such magnitude, instead of waking us to the brutality of the AFSPA, was cast as evidence of India’s redeeming features, a cause for self-congratulation: it was a governmental body that unearthed the graves, after all. Instead of questioning a policy that so randomly distributed death among Kashmiris, India celebrated its capacity for self-monitoring.

    The novelist Amit Chaudhuri once wrote that “Indians don’t know how to fashion eloquence out of a sense of being wronged or having wronged, at least not without the unmistakable timbre of self-congratulation.” This is primarily because we ”have never really known what it means to inhabit a morally uneasy position.” The hysterical reaction to Kamal is a measure of Indian society’s sense of its own unimpeachable righteousness, and its imperviousness to the appeals of those seeking the restitution of their dignity.

    Bloodshed has ebbed in Kashmir and something like peace is returning to the valley, yet closure will not come unless there is repentance on the part of those who claim Kashmiris as their “fellow citizens” but withhold from them the privileges of citizenship.

    Kapil Komireddi can be reached at komireddi@aol.com
    Tronic, Neo and Agnostic Muslim like this.
    To sit down with these men and deal with them as the representatives of an enlightened and civilized people is to deride ones own dignity and to invite the disaster of their treachery - General Matthew Ridgway

  2. #2
    Arzi Hukumat-e-Azad Hind Senior Contributor Tronic's Avatar
    Join Date
    27 Dec 04
    Location
    Patiala, Punjab
    Posts
    3,922
    It's true, and Kashmir isn't a special case. The states of Manipur, Assam, Mizoram, Nagaland, Meghalaya, Tripura and Arunachal Pradesh have lived under AFSPA far longer than the Kashmiris. As for the attitudes, a lot of Indians in the hinterland have twisted notions of what India actually is. They feel entitled to the land without giving a hoot about the sentiments of the people living on that land. Hell, I'm an anti-India Khalistani secessionist to a section of Indian members on another forum. Don't know how to change these attitudes. Though it doesn't really matter much back home since each state tends to do it's own thing, except ofcourse when the central government's imposed laws come into the picture, such as the AFSPA. Finding a mechanism to resolve those issues is still allusive.
    Neo likes this.
    The real voyage of discovery consists not in seeking new lands but seeing with new eyes.

  3. #3
    Contributor ambidex's Avatar
    Join Date
    03 Aug 09
    Location
    Te Rotorua-nui-a-Kahumatamomoe
    Posts
    484
    ^ as long as they do not pick up the gun, the land is very their own and they are free to do all the politico-social nonsense they want to do. If you can find me an exception without gun in use and mistreatment of Union (AFSPA) together I would thank your above post. There is consensus amongst middle class Indians and unsaid mandate given to Union of India to handle anyone with Iron gloves whosoever pick up the gun.

  4. #4
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
    Join Date
    11 Sep 10
    Location
    Bangalore
    Posts
    4,885
    Quote Originally Posted by troung View Post
    What’s striking, particularly in a country that takes so much pride in its democracy, is the refusal of a large number of Indians even to acknowledge this reality. India’s much-revered public intellectuals and its voluble news media maintain a near total silence on the subject. Insulated from any serious debate on New Delhi’s conduct in Kashmir, many Indians fall back on old shibboleths to make sense of what is happening there.
    Because AFSPA prevents any reporting from the area. Its the same with the NE, another black area.

    Quote Originally Posted by troung View Post
    The Indian Army continues to function under the Armed Forces Special Powers Act (AFSPA) in Kashmir. The AFSPA is one of the cruelest pieces of legislation on India’s statue books. It provides immunity from prosecution to the troops operating in Kashmir and other restive regions of the country.
    So here is the payload, a diatribe against AFSPA. Why hasn't this reporter interviewed any army spokespeople and asked them their opinion on whether they are confident as yet whether AFSPA can be removed.

    Quote Originally Posted by troung View Post
    This was enough to sound the jingoist tocsins across India. Times Now, the broadcasting arm of the Times of India and India’s answer to Fox News, almost exploded with nationalist rage.
    Heh, not only Times NOW but every private news channel in India has to follow the FOX model, that is to say build up their bottom line without any obligation to inform their viewers.

    Quote Originally Posted by troung View Post
    “Can Mustafa Kamal get away by calling India the enemy and Pakistan the friend?” asked one of the channel’s anchors. The Times of India published stories accusing Kamal of describing India as an enemy.
    Lol, that must be Arnab.

    Quote Originally Posted by troung View Post
    It’s clear from Kamal’s statement that he acknowledged India as “our country” and, as a citizen, placed the burden of responsibility for Kashmir on New Delhi rather than Islamabad. But the effort to portray him as a separatist only intensified. Kamal appeared this week on Times Now’s flagship show to clarify his position. But the host, Arnab Goswami, a blowhard whose act combines the buffoonery of Glenn Beck with the belligerence of Mark Levin, cut him off. “Is India not your country?” he shouted. It was an absurd and humiliating inquisition. I don’t know if Kamal ever harbored separatist sentiments. But if he comes out in favor of Kashmir’s secession tomorrow, nobody should be surprised.
    Arnab like every other private anchor is doing his job, holding onto the viewers. Its frickin' entertainment, not news.

    Quote Originally Posted by troung View Post
    Contrast this “controversy” with the arid reaction to the discovery just last year of unmarked graves containing more than 2,000 bodies in Kashmir. There were no angry newscasters demanding answers from the Indian government.
    Can't talk about it. Can't send any correspondents in there to report on it either.

    Quote Originally Posted by troung View Post
    Extraordinarily, a discovery of such magnitude, instead of waking us to the brutality of the AFSPA, was cast as evidence of India’s redeeming features, a cause for self-congratulation: it was a governmental body that unearthed the graves, after all. Instead of questioning a policy that so randomly distributed death among Kashmiris, India celebrated its capacity for self-monitoring.
    When the army says AFSPA may be removed then it goes, until such time it stays. In the end its the army's job to defend the area. The buck stops with them.

    Quote Originally Posted by troung View Post
    The novelist Amit Chaudhuri once wrote that “Indians don’t know how to fashion eloquence out of a sense of being wronged or having wronged, at least not without the unmistakable timbre of self-congratulation.” This is primarily because we ”have never really known what it means to inhabit a morally uneasy position.” The hysterical reaction to Kamal is a measure of Indian society’s sense of its own unimpeachable righteousness, and its imperviousness to the appeals of those seeking the restitution of their dignity.
    All well and good but the peace in that area is being held to India's advantage because of AFSPA.

  5. #5
    Contributor cataphract's Avatar
    Join Date
    01 Oct 12
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    449
    Quote Originally Posted by Tronic View Post
    It's true, and Kashmir isn't a special case. The states of Manipur, Assam, Mizoram, Nagaland, Meghalaya, Tripura and Arunachal Pradesh have lived under AFSPA far longer than the Kashmiris. As for the attitudes, a lot of Indians in the hinterland have twisted notions of what India actually is. They feel entitled to the land without giving a hoot about the sentiments of the people living on that land. Hell, I'm an anti-India Khalistani secessionist to a section of Indian members on another forum. Don't know how to change these attitudes. Though it doesn't really matter much back home since each state tends to do it's own thing, except ofcourse when the central government's imposed laws come into the picture, such as the AFSPA. Finding a mechanism to resolve those issues is still allusive.
    Most Indians in the hinterland have far more important things to think about than what goes on in Punjab, J&K or northeast. And for whatever little their opinion matters, it is moulded by our ridiculous media.

  6. #6
    Senior Contributor Yusuf's Avatar
    Join Date
    26 Dec 07
    Location
    Bangalore
    Posts
    2,126
    The author can rename himself as CommieRed.

    India has been forced to do what it has because it's neighbors won't let it live in peace.

    And certainly the west should not lecture India on human rights.
    Even someone like Ajmal Kasab who killed scores of people was afforded a fair trial and is so far living very comfortably in Indian jail and even demanding his favorite food and getting it.

    If the army is not there, terrorists will run amok. India has shown remarkable patience I would say. Kashmir and North East is quite "out of bounds" for other citizens quite against the constitution but Kashmiris have been given special status.

    @Tronic mate you know how the right wing is in India. It is quick to brand.

  7. #7
    Armchair Worrier Senior Contributor bolo121's Avatar
    Join Date
    19 Dec 07
    Location
    india
    Posts
    1,860
    I do feel sympathy for civilians caught in the middle and its true that there have been plenty of misdeeds and wrongful killings in both J&K and the North East.

    But....the bottom line is, The Union Must Be Preserved and secession prevented no matter the cost.
    Anyone who picks up a weapon or supports those who do is an enemy of the state and expendable.

    We should have realized much earlier that nothing we do will ever endear these people to us. They will always dream of getting out of India and standing alone.
    Follow the Han policy, flood the state with money and people from the Indian heartland.
    Within a few generations demographics will ensure that separatism is much more difficult.
    For Gallifrey! For Victory! For the end of time itself!!

  8. #8
    Military Professional 667medic's Avatar
    Join Date
    22 Jul 05
    Posts
    933
    I had my first interaction with Indian-Kashmiris recently at my Ivy League University. These are educated men who did their PhD in Western countries. They squarely blame India for the mess. The issue is not about who is at fault but how can their opinions be accommodated.....
    Tronic, Neo and xinhui like this.
    Seek Save Serve Medic

  9. #9
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
    Join Date
    11 Sep 10
    Location
    Bangalore
    Posts
    4,885
    Quote Originally Posted by bolo121 View Post
    We should have realized much earlier that nothing we do will ever endear these people to us. They will always dream of getting out of India and standing alone.
    From what i understand secession is less of an issue nowadays, it tends to be more about governance.

    Quote Originally Posted by bolo121 View Post
    Follow the Han policy, flood the state with money and people from the Indian heartland.
    Within a few generations demographics will ensure that separatism is much more difficult.
    Article 370

  10. #10
    Global Moderator
    Military Professional
    Bandaid

    Join Date
    04 Oct 04
    Location
    India
    Posts
    4,900
    Well next time the author can write why the Kashmiri's dont want Article 370 to be abolished,.. so that fellow Indians get the same rights as Kashmiris' get in other Indian states. So that children of fellow Indians get seats in the quotas reserved in Kashmiri medical and engineering colleges. etc, etc....Till then the author can correct improve his writing skills.
    hammer and ambidex like this.

    Cheers!...on the rocks!!

  11. #11
    Military Professional Deltacamelately's Avatar
    Join Date
    29 Sep 07
    Posts
    1,570
    How many states enjoy Article 370?
    How much dough does the Centre gives to Govt. of J&K?
    How many Kashmiri Muslims trading and working in other Indian States get roughened up or marginalized?
    Kashmiri Muslims have owned land in other states, how many Non-Kashmiris own real estate in Kashmir?
    Who killed/raped/threw out their racial kins, the Kashmiri Pundits?
    How many Indian troop died in the hands of gun-weiling militants hiding inside mobs of stone pelting protesters, including women and children?

    The author has a lot to answer before aspiring to get the Noble Peace Prize.
    Ray, hammer and bolo121 like this.
    And on the sixth day, God created the Field Artillery...

  12. #12
    Arzi Hukumat-e-Azad Hind Senior Contributor Tronic's Avatar
    Join Date
    27 Dec 04
    Location
    Patiala, Punjab
    Posts
    3,922

    @ All

    Hate to be the one pointing out the Elephant in the room, but it seems like most folks here have reached a consensus that the game in Kashmir is about how best to hold a people against their will.

    Quote Originally Posted by 667medic View Post
    I had my first interaction with Indian-Kashmiris recently at my Ivy League University. These are educated men who did their PhD in Western countries. They squarely blame India for the mess. The issue is not about who is at fault but how can their opinions be accommodated.....
    Kudos for addressing the real issue!

    Everyone else here only seems to have vindicated the article. The article isn't about AFSPA or even the army. It is about the attitudes of the hinterland Indians against people living in conflict zones such as Kashmir. We have people scrambling to defend the policies of the government, without anyone addressing those alienating attitudes, which can even be seen in the posts here.
    Last edited by Tronic; 21 Nov 12, at 10:53.
    Neo likes this.
    The real voyage of discovery consists not in seeking new lands but seeing with new eyes.

  13. #13
    Contributor ambidex's Avatar
    Join Date
    03 Aug 09
    Location
    Te Rotorua-nui-a-Kahumatamomoe
    Posts
    484
    Quote Originally Posted by Tronic View Post
    Hate to be the one pointing out the Elephant in the room, but it seems like most folks here have reached a consensus that the game in Kashmir is about how best to hold a people against their will.



    Kudos for addressing the real issue!

    Everyone else here only seems to have vindicated the article. The article isn't about AFSPA or even the army. It is about the attitudes of the hinterland Indians against people living in conflict zones such as Kashmir. We have people scrambling to defend the policies of the government, without anyone addressing those alienating attitudes, which can even be seen in the posts here.
    It was you who brought AFSPA in, otherwise thread was quite dormant for one or two days.

    Then few posters have proved your point wrong by mentioning article 370, that GoI is interfering in business of natives of those states. May be you are seeing all problems in those states through the same prism you see issues pertaining to Punjab/Sikhs ?

  14. #14
    Armchair Worrier Senior Contributor bolo121's Avatar
    Join Date
    19 Dec 07
    Location
    india
    Posts
    1,860
    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    From what i understand secession is less of an issue nowadays, it tends to be more about governance.


    Article 370
    Secession is still simmering away below the surface. Its just that they haven't recovered their energy from the last round of protests.

    Article 370 is unjust and un Indian. Every one of us should have the right to purchase land, live and work in any part of the country.

    The only realistic long term fix is to change the demographics in the state ala China.
    Otherwise it will remain as it is now, a bleeding ulcer costing endless amounts of blood and treasure.
    For Gallifrey! For Victory! For the end of time itself!!

  15. #15
    Arzi Hukumat-e-Azad Hind Senior Contributor Tronic's Avatar
    Join Date
    27 Dec 04
    Location
    Patiala, Punjab
    Posts
    3,922
    Quote Originally Posted by ambidex View Post
    It was you who brought AFSPA in, otherwise thread was quite dormant for one or two days.

    Then few posters have proved your point wrong by mentioning article 370, that GoI is interfering in business of natives of those states.
    Errmm... Proved my point wrong? Quote from my post and highlight exactly which point of mines was proven wrong.

    And take one look at the date and timings of the posts before making ridiculous assertions.

    May be you are seeing all problems in those states through the same prism you see issues pertaining to Punjab/Sikhs ?
    You want different yardsticks for different people?
    Neo likes this.
    The real voyage of discovery consists not in seeking new lands but seeing with new eyes.

Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. 26/11 aimed at capturing Kashmir, destabilising India
    By KARAN in forum Operation Iraqi Freedom/Operation New Dawn
    Replies: 18
    Last Post: 22 Nov 12,, 09:04
  2. India warns Pak over raising Kashmir at UN
    By santosh tiwari in forum International Politics
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 08 Nov 06,, 23:46
  3. Kashmir--Which Way?How Far? And Why?
    By ZD12 in forum International Politics
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 04 May 06,, 18:18

Share this thread with friends:

Share this thread with friends:

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •