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Reply With QuoteChopping heads off is as common in India as it is chopping off body parts and shipping them to public places in Canada. Sick bastards exist all over the world.Originally Posted by tbm3fan
You know for a supposedly up and coming country this stuff still stuns me. This is really depraved for lack of a better word. Such a contradiction for women from one end of the spectrum to the other...
New Delhi, India (CNN)-- Police in the northern India state of Rajasthan say they were stunned when a man showed up at a police outpost holding a bloody human head in one hand and a sword in another.The head was that of the man's daughter, chopped off because of her "indecent behavior," Umesh Ojha, deputy superintendent of the district police, told CNN.Investigators say the man, Oghad Singh, had paraded the head through the village on his way to the police station.Singh's daughter, Manju Kunwar, was in her 20s and was living with her parents after divorcing her husband two years ago. Her father accused her of acting indecently with other men.Authorities say Kunwar's mother is a farmer who was working in the fields at the time and was too distraught to talk. Singh works in a marble quarry.The beheading happened on Tuesday in Dengar Ka Guda, a village in Rajsamand District about 400 kilometers, or 250 miles, from Jaipur in the state of Rajasthan.Kunwar's head and the rest of her body were cremated according to Hindu tradition, police said.India is filled with extremes on many levels, including how women are treated. In India women hold some of the highest positions in society, from company CEOs to the president and speaker of the House, but this case highlights another side of India, one in which women still suffer the consequences of long-held traditions that govern their behavior in Indian society.This month India topped the Thomas Reuters Foundation poll as the worst place to be a woman among the top 19 economies in the world. The foundation cited abuse, killings and discrimination on a scale unparalleled in the other developed nations.
Chopping heads off is as common in India as it is chopping off body parts and shipping them to public places in Canada. Sick bastards exist all over the world.
The real voyage of discovery consists not in seeking new lands but seeing with new eyes.
Aforementioned poll & its methodology.
Canada best G20 country to be a woman, India worst - TrustLaw
Merkel is not the head of state, that is President Gauck. Merkel is head of the government.A female head of state is a major boost but Germany...
So it has only happened once then? That go for bride burning & other sorts of 'honor killings' related to gender, religion & caste? How about ritual human sacrifices?
Win nervously lose tragically - Reds C C
India worse than Saudi Arabia?(that's just sad
)
Nope it has happened an aweful lot of times before, mostly in northern Indian states like Rajasthan, UP, Punjab, etc. But looking at our overwhelmingly large population, our bad apples are likely to be way more than what other countries can boast of. (Not that it lessens the severity of the practice in any way!)
Last edited by DarthSiddius; 19 Jun 12, at 21:16. Reason: Typo
Stereotyping is very easy. In India we do read about how all Australians are racists, perfected the art of sledging in cricket, almost wiped out the native race, forcefully snatched their children to teach them "white" ways... etc etc... But the truth is, everyone should get down from their moral high horse and see the issue for what it really is.
We are 1 billion! how many of these incidents have happened? Nobody here justifies these actions. Police and law act against these animals. This is our problem and we will deal with it. Thanks for your concern.
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie!'...till you can find a rock. ;)
heh, you're thinking about this
A beheading is unusual by indian standards.
Sati ? Rare in the modern era.
Honour killings do occur with regular frequency. Gets coverage in the national media, everybody wrings their hands until it happens the next time and the cycle repeats. People ask for more legislation but i don't think that will make a difference. I used to think this only happened in the north, but a google shows there are cases that have occurred recently in the south and its on the rise.
In the OP's post, a daughter was killed, the father will go to jail now. So that's a double blow to the family. if the state acts & jails him for the full life term it remains to be seen how it will be received. What happens if more family members were involved. There is a lot that does not get said here.
There is a famous case going on atm, the Aarushi Talwar case. 14yr old mysteriously dies along with the male domestic. The street says it was an honour killing by the parents who are both dentists but there is no evidence. And the local cops messed up whatever little evidence there was. Cannot convict until there is evidence. But in this case there seems to be a lot of public pressure to prosecute. So the case endures even though i think it has no chance as the evidence just isn't there.
Just the other day i read about a final yr law student who went back to her village to prepare for her finals. Her classmates in Bangalore were shocked to hear she died. Suspecting foul play they rushed over to find that her family had already cremated her and they said it was a suicide. Where is the evidence ? forget any autotopsy. These are the kinds of challenges you have to deal with.
Evidently there is a lack of sufficient public revulsion about the issue. This is one attempt to force the issue into the open.
Satyamev Jayate: Aamir Khan opposes honour killings in episode 5 | CNN IBN | Jun 03, 2012
Aamir Khan is a well known bollywood actor.
Last edited by Double Edge; 19 Jun 12, at 19:31.
It is a gross generalization and a stereotype.
For one; while family honour, dowry, caste differentiation, et all, are all very real issues, to assume that these result in daily "honour killings" and "bride burnings" is an exaggeration. Children get disowned by their families, marriages are rejected or broken due to dowry, inter-caste marriages are shunned and force young folks to elope from their houses; but it is abnormal for a man to chop his dauther's head off due to "honour". If this was such a normal occurrence, it would not be national news.
Secondly, India is a union of various different states, each with their own social characteristics. Gender inequality is rampant in the North; Punjab, Harayana, Rajasthan, Kashmir, and parts of UP; a regional phenomena ranging all the way up to Afghanistan. On the flip side however, South India and North Eastern Indian societies are a complete opposite, and from them, India also boasts of having the largest matriarchal society in the world! The people of Khasi are one example. The Nairs, Bunts, Mappilas, Garos, Nambudiris, and several others, are Indian ethnic groups which are strongly matriarchal and place an emphasis on women as the head!
These societal differences are further illustrated in a blog I read a while ago, from a South Indian girl venting her frustrations about the Northerners: Broken Morning: AN OPEN LETTER TO A DELHI BOY
So to generalize an entire nation is not true. I admit that gender discrimination is indeed there in my neck of the woods, Punjab, but it is as unfair to put this label on the entire country, as much as it is unfair to put the practice of "Sati" on head of the entire country, when infact it was only carried out by the people of Rajputana. Either way, it is an extinct practice and amounts to murder in today's India.
Last edited by Tronic; 19 Jun 12, at 21:47.
The real voyage of discovery consists not in seeking new lands but seeing with new eyes.
Here's the link for the methodology: http://www.trust.org/documents/women...andresults.pdf
I can't agree with it. Although rankings in this manner are worthless, how does India rank one of the lowest even in politics, where the most powerful political person in India has been a woman ever since 1967, give or take a couple of years in between. Even on the state level, a large number of states either have a woman in power, or a woman as the leader of the main opposition!
The real voyage of discovery consists not in seeking new lands but seeing with new eyes.
Out of curiosity, what are this man's chances in General Population?
Chimo
He is fukced. Both legally as well as financially if he tries to come out free.
And on the sixth day, God created the Field Artillery...
Indeed it is, but since that wasn't what my post was doing your response really isn't relevent.
All of those things are or were true to some extent. My response is to say that our culture and history contains elements and aspects of which we should be ashamed & should strive to change. See if you can tell the difference between that and this:In India we do read about how all Australians are racists, perfected the art of sledging in cricket, almost wiped out the native race, forcefully snatched their children to teach them "white" ways... etc etc... But the truth is, everyone should get down from their moral high horse and see the issue for what it really is.
(actually, keep reading the following replies, I'll give you the answer for free)Chopping heads off is as common in India as it is chopping off body parts and shipping them to public places in Canada. Sick bastards exist all over the world.
Thank you for your evasion.We are 1 billion! how many of these incidents have happened? Nobody here justifies these actions. Police and law act against these animals. This is our problem and we will deal with it. Thanks for your concern.
Win nervously lose tragically - Reds C C
I had actually forgotten about that. I was just taking a punt that it wasn't quite the isolated example it was being made out to be.
Wasn't actually talking about Sati - I actually did know aobut the '87 one & thought it was the last. The reference was to a particular species of bride murder - perhaps 'dowry killing' might have covered it better (though I'm not sure the practice is struictly limited to that circumstance).Sati ? Rare in the modern era.
The human sacrifice thing appears both more recent and more common than sati.
That is sort of what I was getting at - this sort of thing isn't just the work of the sort of sociopath involved in the Canadian killing & dismemberment. There are powerful cultural factors at work.Honour killings do occur with regular frequency. Gets coverage in the national media, everybody wrings their hands until it happens the next time and the cycle repeats. People ask for more legislation but i don't think that will make a difference. I used to think this only happened in the north, but a google shows there are cases that have occurred recently in the south and its on the rise.
Which is also what I was getting at. No one in Canada is going to pretend that what this guy did is anything other than inexcusably evil.Evidently there is a lack of sufficient public revulsion about the issue.
Win nervously lose tragically - Reds C C
It was a response to an exteremely poor comparison. I find it interesting that each response to my post has preven exactly the point I was making - this isn't simply about a lone sociopath killing for kicks.
....and that has what to do with my post? Are these all the acts of lone sociopaths? I neither said nor implied any of this.For one; while family honour, dowry, caste differentiation, et all, are all very real issues, to assume that these result in daily "honour killings" and "bride burnings" is an exaggeration.
So if he had shot or burned the child you wouldn't have compared him to a lone sociopath?Children get disowned by their families, marriages are rejected or broken due to dowry, inter-caste marriages are shunned and force young folks to elope from their houses; but it is abnormal for a man to chop his dauther's head off due to "honour". If this was such a normal occurrence, it would not be national news.
...ummm, that's nice. Interesting even. It has noting to do with my comments nor their purpose.Secondly, India is a union of various different states, each with their own social characteristics. Gender inequality is rampant in the North; Punjab, Harayana, Rajasthan, Kashmir, and parts of UP; a regional phenomena ranging all the way up to Afghanistan. On the flip side however, South India and North Eastern Indian societies are a complete opposite, and from them, India also boasts of having the largest matriarchal society in the world! The people of Khasi are one example. The Nairs, Bunts, Mappilas, Garos, Nambudiris, and several others, are Indian ethnic groups which are strongly matriarchal and place an emphasis on women as the head!
These societal differences are further illustrated in a blog I read a while ago, from a South Indian girl venting her frustrations about the Northerners: Broken Morning: AN OPEN LETTER TO A DELHI BOY
Wasn't talking about 'sati', but more common versions of socailly sacntioned murder of women.So to generalize an entire nation is not true. I admit that gender discrimination is indeed there in my neck of the woods, Punjab, but it is as unfair to put this label on the entire country, as much as it is unfair to put the practice of "Sati" on head of the entire country, when infact it was only carried out by the people of Rajputana. Either way, it is an extinct practice and amounts to murder in today's India.
As for 'generalizing' I wasn't. I was pointing out that your choice to characterize this murder as akin to the actions of a lone sociopath was at best unintentionally misleading & at worst deliberately so. I was pointing out that some of us are aware that variations of 'honour killing' and other socially & religiously sanctioned forms of murder are not unusual in India have roots in Indian culture. They do not stand outside it in the way that the murder & dismemberment in Canada so clearly does. Your reply & others here have neatly made my point for me. Whether or not this makes India the 'worst' nation in the world for women is neither here nor there. Your society has gender problems that have either never existed in places like Canada (or Australia) or are so far in the past they are beyond human memory. I'm afraid that as long as those problems exist you will have to put up with the judgement of more successful societies (and yes, that was a judgement - a pretty polite one given some of the issues here).
Had you chosen a different & more accurate form of words I would not have replied.
Oh, and if this guy's name had been 'Muhammed' rather than 'Singh' I doubt any of us would be having these detailed discussions of Indian society and culture.
Last edited by Bigfella; 20 Jun 12, at 10:07.
Win nervously lose tragically - Reds C C
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