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Reply With QuoteYep. They can't state their position any clearer than that.Originally Posted by Tronic
Surprise Surprise.Pakistan doctor jailed for treason for helping the CIA find bin Laden
PESHAWAR, PAKISTAN // Pakistani authorities have sentenced a doctor who allegedly helped the CIA find Osama bin Laden to 33 years in jail on charges of treason, a move almost certain to further strain ties between Washington and Islamabad.
Shakil Afridi was accused of running a fake vaccination campaign, in which he collected DNA samples, which is believed to have helped the American intelligence agency track down bin Laden in a Pakistani town.
The Al Qaeda leader was killed in a unilateral US special forces raid in Abbottabad in May last year.
"Dr Shakil has been sentenced to 33 years imprisonment and a fine of 320,000 Pakistani rupees [Dh12,800]," said Mohammed Nasir, a government official in Peshawar, where the jail term will be served.
Afridi is the first person to be sentenced by Pakistani authorities in the bin Laden case. No one has yet been charged for helping the Al Qaeda leader take refuge in Pakistan.
The imprisonment will almost certainly anger the US at a sensitive time, with both sides engaged in difficult talks about reopening Nato supply routes to US-led troops in Afghanistan.
US officials had made public appeals for Pakistan, a recipient of billions of dollars in American aid, to release Afridi, detained after the operation that killed bin Laden.
In January, Leon Panetta, the US defence secretary, said Afridi and his team had been key in finding bin Laden, describing him as helpful and insisting the doctor had not committed treason or harmed Pakistan.
Dana Rohrabacher, a US congressman, introduced legislation in February calling for Afridi to be granted American citizenship and said it was "shameful and unforgivable that our supposed allies" charged him.
The US raid that killed bin Laden in Abbottabad, just a few hours' drive from the capital Islamabad, humiliated Pakistan's military, which described the move as a violation of sovereignty.
Intelligence cooperation between the US and Pakistan, vital for the fight against militants, has subsequently been cut drastically.
Afridi's prison term could complicate efforts to break a deadlock in talks over the reopening of land routes through Pakistan to Afghanistan.
Pakistan closed the supply routes, also seen as vital to the planned withdrawal of most foreign troops from Afghanistan before the end of 2014, in protest against last November's killing of 24 Pakistani soldiers in a Nato air attack along the Afghan border.
Before Afridi's sentence, a US official said that the US hoped Pakistan would soon agree to reopen the routes after a Senate panel threatened to cut aid to Islamabad.
"Talks are continuing and we hope to reach a resolution soon," said the official.
Nato has been seeking to compensate for the lack of access in Pakistan with shipments of war supplies via Afghanistan's other borders, but those routes are more expensive.
A western official said fees for use of the routes are under discussion.
A US Senate panel voted to cut aid to Pakistan on Tuesday and threatened to withhold even more cash if the country did not reopen the routes.
The panel voted to cut aid by 58 per cent in the 2013 fiscal year, said the panel's chairman, Patrick Leahy.
That move, along with Afridi's case, highlighted tensions between Pakistan and the US.
Afridi was arrested soon after bin Laden was killed, and has not been publicly heard of since.
Seventeen health workers who worked with Afridi on the vaccination drive were fired in March, according to termination letters, which described them as having acted "against the national interest".
On May 2, one year after bin Laden's death, some of them appeared at the site where bin Laden's house had stood before it was demolished by Pakistani authorities.
Afridi "was very nice to all the people in the team and did his job very diligently", said one of the health workers Naseem Bib, holding one of the notices.
"Yes he was very interested in this house on that day [of the vaccination drive] but I am not sure why."
The sackings underscored Pakistan's lingering fury over the bin Laden affair, which exposed the military to rare public criticism, both because of the presence of the Al Qaeda chief in the country, and the fact that US special forces just swept in and out of the country and faced no resistance.
Pakistan doctor jailed for treason for helping the CIA find bin Laden - The National
The real voyage of discovery consists not in seeking new lands but seeing with new eyes.
Yep. They can't state their position any clearer than that.
Afridi was sentenced to treason because he assisted a foreign intel agency in targetting a Pakistani resident.
Does not matter who the target was.
heh, no it won't as its completely irrelevant.Afridi's prison term could complicate efforts to break a deadlock in talks over the reopening of land routes through Pakistan to Afghanistan.
Last edited by Double Edge; 23 May 12, at 23:43.
Actually, it does.
Was Bin Laden just another Pakistani resident? (not to mention, the Pakistanis refused to acknowledge he was even in their country).
A 33 years prison term sounds absurd for someone who helped track the most wanted man in the region, if not the world.
The real voyage of discovery consists not in seeking new lands but seeing with new eyes.
What difference does that make ?
Whether Pakistan admitted it or not, he was in that country at the time. OBL was resident in Pakistan.
Soime countries have the death sentence for treason.
If you disagree then show us how what Afridi did does not constitute treason.
Anyone that was actively involved in that affair that still lives in Pakistan are going to be goners.
Am not sure how to defend them. Unless somebody stumps up some mega bucks
Last edited by Double Edge; 24 May 12, at 02:15.
His actions can be portrayed to be treason, or, they can be looked over; it entirely depends on the priorities of the ones judging.
Personally, I see the man help track down a psychopath criminal, who, we presume was a mutual enemy of the Pakistani state aswell; hence, I would disagree that Afridi betrayed his country to an extent of warranting 33 years in prison!
Or in America's case; threaten to stop dishing out those mega bucks.Am not sure how to defend them. Unless somebody stumps up some mega bucks
The real voyage of discovery consists not in seeking new lands but seeing with new eyes.
You presume incorrectly. Bringing charges of treason against him is an admission on the part of Pakistan that they knew of OBL's presence in their country, that they regarded him as an asset and they wished to keep his presence secret. Basic jurisprudence.
Explain that to me within the context of Afridi.
Pakistan may have known through other ways but i cannot as yet see this judgement specifically as such an admission.
You raise the possibility of an appeal. Does Afridi have one ?
Consider drone strikes.
Before those drones can unleash anything there as to be some confirmation that targets of value are present at a designated location. That info comes from informants on the ground. Not always but I would imagine a good percent of the time.
What those informants are doing is no different to what Afridi has done.
To my knowledge nobody has been charged by the state with aiding those drone strikes, but that may be because they have not found anybody yet. In any case in the tribal areas, anybody suspected would probably be summarily shot before any trial can convene.
There is an inconsistency here, the drone strikes or even the OBL raid are legal but any locals assisting in those efforts are seen as betraying the country.
How much is he worth ?Or in America's case; threaten to stop dishing out those mega bucks.
You're trying to tie this into the larger picture of the present impasse in relations.
Last edited by Double Edge; 24 May 12, at 12:44.
His detention is politically motivated. Talk of an appeal is laughable.
The whole war on Pakistan's side is riddled with inconsistency. GoP/PA rejoiced at the drones taking down the Mehsuds and co., but when the target becomes Bin Laden, or the Afghan Taliban, a witch hunt is pursued and public pressure is artificially manipulated against NATO and the drones.Consider drone strikes.
Before those drones can unleash anything there as to be some confirmation that targets of value are present at a designated location. That info comes from informants on the ground. Not always but I would imagine a good percent of the time.
What those informants are doing is no different to what Afridi has done.
To my knowledge nobody has been charged by the state with aiding those drone strikes, but that may be because they have not found anybody yet. In any case in the tribal areas, anybody suspected would probably be summarily shot before any trial can convene.
There is an inconsistency here, the drone strikes or even the OBL raid are legal but any locals assisting in those efforts are seen as betraying the country.
I'm in agreement with Pari, Afridi is a 'traitor' and 'betrayed his country', since he helped take out a Pakistani asset.
Senate panel cuts Pakistan's aid in response to doctor's conviction - The Hill's Global AffairsHow much is he worth ?
You're trying to tie this into the larger picture of the present impasse in relations.
The aid cut may be small, for now, but its a quite clear writing on the wall for Pakistan.
ps: are you a lawyer (or practicing to be one)?
The real voyage of discovery consists not in seeking new lands but seeing with new eyes.
Then the question to ask in this context is why are drone strikes ok but not aiding in them.
You could use this grey area to argue that Afridi isn't guilty for what he was charged.
Right, so its legal in the case of the Mehsuds but apparently not for OBL. Pak policy here is arbitrary.
So i guess your point is that since they chose to apply the law in this case it is an admission of their guilt.
I'm not so sure of that. Its an inconsistent application of the law, that is clear.
Either they apply the law in all cases or none. Ergo Afridi isn't guilty because those that aided in getting the Mehsuds are not guilty.
Senate appropriators unanimously voted Thursday to cut Pakistani aid by $33 million, or $1 million for every year a Pakistani doctor will spend in prison for helping the CIA find Osama bin Laden.Very goodAfridi used a vaccination drive to try to get DNA samples from people inside the compound where bin Laden was hiding in Pakistan. While he was unsuccessful, U.S. officials say he helped an intelligence program that led to the killing of bin Laden.
Nope to both. Just trying to reason it out in layman's speak.
Till recently, the pakistanis were trying to convince everybody that the Americans were able to locate Osama because of ISI help, and that's why the Americans should have kept them in the loop when they decided to take him out.
So now, if Dr. Afridi is guilty of treason, then so is the ISI. Unless of course they were lying to us in the first place. (which is what everyone believes anyway)
DE, I'm not pleading Afridi's innocence here; he may well be guilty of what Pakistan is charging him for, but he doesn't have to be. As I said earlier, it entirely depends on where PA and GoP's priorities lie.
If it wants to try someone for treason, they can just as easily pick up the likes of Hamid Gul, for his very open and very close association with the Taliban.
Why spare Gul, but pick up Afridi?
To me, it is a very clear indication of where Pakistan's allegiance lies. Osama Bin Laden was their asset, which Afridi helped kill, so Afridi goes. Afghan Taliban are an asset with whom people like Hamid Gul form a cordial Pakistani channel, so Gul stays.
The real voyage of discovery consists not in seeking new lands but seeing with new eyes.
Why go after the Pak taliban but leave out the Afghan Taliban or OBL ? (Rhetorical)
Yeah, you are looking at the big picture and this is just the latest installment to the series.
They are selective with whom they enforce the law.
They are making a conscious/deliberate choice here.
And the reason for being selective is as you say their allegiance.
Last edited by Double Edge; 24 May 12, at 23:29.
Firstly, if I were to say here that NZ has no jet fighter capability I would not be committing treason because it is a matter of public knowledge. It requires that I be revealing a secret.
Secondly, were I to announce that my neighbour down the road wears womens underwear that would not be treason, as it requires the secret be relevant to the state.
Thirdly, if I were to announce he was a known criminal hiding out I would be performing a community service, not committing treason.
It only becomes treason if it were a secret the state knew about and wished to keep secret for its own advantage and by revealing that secret damaged my countries interests.
By finding him guilty they have argued that OBL was a secret asset to the state, and by revealing that secret Afridi has damaged the state.
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