Welcome To Pakistan

S2 · 05 Oct 09, 20:47

"It really breaks my heart to see British Soldiers being killed..its American soldier's who should be killed like rats...Well, anyway just few days ago 8 US Soldiers went straight to hell."

Posted earlier this morning elsewhere by a Pakistani citizen.

THIS is to what our tax-dollars are spent. Nothing particularly unusual about it either.

This gov't of mine had better WAKE UP to the reality of Pakistan. What you read is the product of a country that manages the information available to it's citizens.

What narrative do you think is being sold below the radar?

They are our enemy. Thinking anything less is irresponsible. Their leadership doesn't represent their public's views and their efforts to shape and manage such have provided these abysmal results.

I'd submit, off-hand, that we are HATED by 85-90% of their country. I REFUSE, btw, to call it a nation. Nations don't freely abdicate authority over their lands to ousted governments. Pakistan clearly has done EXACTLY that for which we've suffered daily.

Aid?

Try BOMBS.

Calling a spade a spade is a GREAT place to start any discussion. We've danced around the obvious and have since 9/12/01.

I pray it stops.

**~~diplomaticview~~** · 05 Oct 09, 21:51

Originally Posted by S-2

"It really breaks my heart to see British Soldiers being killed..its American soldier's who should be killed like rats...Well, anyway just few days ago 8 US Soldiers went straight to hell."

Posted earlier this morning elsewhere by a Pakistani citizen.

THIS is to what our tax-dollars are spent. Nothing particularly unusual about it either.

This gov't of mine had better WAKE UP to the reality of Pakistan. What you read is the product of a country that manages the information available to it's citizens.

What narrative do you think is being sold below the radar?

They are our enemy. Thinking anything less is irresponsible. Their leadership doesn't represent their public's views and their efforts to shape and manage such have provided these abysmal results.

I'd submit, off-hand, that we are HATED by 85-90% of their country. I REFUSE, btw, to call it a nation. Nations don't freely abdicate authority over their lands to ousted governments. Pakistan clearly has done EXACTLY that for which we've suffered daily.

Aid?

Try BOMBS.

Calling a spade a spade is a GREAT place to start any discussion. We've danced around the obvious and have since 9/12/01.

I pray it stops.

You are right sir, this Nation needs only AID & AID but no positive return back.

**xinhui** · 06 Oct 09, 01:01

it reminds me of an old saying about "Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today. Teach a man to fish and he will sit in the boat and drink beer all day"

**hammer** · 06 Oct 09, 03:19

Originally Posted by xinhui

it reminds me of an old saying about "Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today. Teach a man to fish and he will sit in the boat and drink beer all day"

Its very hard to teach this man to fish, b'coz he doesnt want to.

**macherjhol** · 06 Oct 09, 04:09

i seriously doubt this article or thousands like it shall have any bearing on Washington's Pakistan policy whatsoever. the deep and indivisible links between Pakistan and militancy has been proven time and again, India has been shouting about the same since 1990.on the positive side if Washington does wakeup the war on terror could be over in a year.

**Kernow** · 06 Oct 09, 04:38

Originally Posted by macherjhol

i seriously doubt this article or thousands like it shall have any bearing on Washington's Pakistan policy whatsoever. the deep and indivisible links between Pakistan and militancy has been proven time and again, India has been shouting about the same since 1990.on the positive side if Washington does wakeup the war on terror could be over in a year.

I think not 'New Member'. Do you understand COIN Operations at all; they take an awful long time to be successful, if at all; so its either the Long Haul or Out.

**Tronic** · 06 Oct 09, 05:16

Originally Posted by Chaobam Armour

Do you understand COIN Operations at all; they take an awful long time to be successful, if at all; so its either the Long Haul or Out.

Chaobam, its either going to be a really really long haul with MUCH more soldiers needed than are present currently in Afghanistan if the war is continued to be fought the way it is, or, cross the Durand line and hit the enemy in their safe havens.

**Kernow** · 06 Oct 09, 05:26

You forget the silly 'Rules of Engagement'!!!!!

**Tronic** · 06 Oct 09, 05:38

Originally Posted by Chaobam Armour

You forget the silly 'Rules of Engagement'!!!!!

Could you please expand mate?

**Kernow** · 06 Oct 09, 06:16

Rules of Engagement define when a soldier can legally open fire and kill, or when they can engage with Air Support, or Heavy Artillery, who can and who cannot enter occupied buildings etc. They will be given what part of the 'Rules of Engagement they can use prior to going out on Patrol.

You can no longer go out on patrol and frag up the place.

A Sniper for example will not be able to open up on someone unless it is positively identified as carrying a weapon that is an immediate threat to colition forces.

Political Correctness gone mad.

Did you not know of the 'Rules of Engagement'?

**Kernow** · 06 Oct 09, 06:21

Here is a new one for you to chew over.

Troops may attack insurgents hiding in Afghan houses if U.S. or NATO forces are in imminent danger.

“But if there is a compound they’re taking fire from and they can remove themselves from the area safely, without any undue danger to the forces, then that’s the option they should take,” “Because in these compounds we know there are often civilians kept captive by the Taliban.”

Makes us look like cowards.

**Kernow** · 06 Oct 09, 06:32

The NATO-led mission, will not be engaged in search and destroy missions for terrorist leaders as a principle mission.

**macherjhol** · 06 Oct 09, 06:57

Originally Posted by Chaobam Armour

I think not 'New Member'. Do you understand COIN Operations at all; they take an awful long time to be successful, if at all; so its either the Long Haul or Out.

i did not and do not mean COIN operations what i was talking about was the support Washington gives to the Pakistani elite.these very people have the power to continue or to stop the insurgents what they need is to be dealt the stick not more carrots as Washington has been giving them.

S2 · 06 Oct 09, 07:20

"...if Washington does wakeup the war on terror could be over in a year."

I think that macherjhol is suggesting what I'm also suggesting- shift the target and fight the war as we best know how.

How long would it take to neuter Pakistan's air force? Can they be prevented from attacking India with nukes in so doing? What happens when their air force and mechanized strike corps have been laid to waste. Will they sober to a new reality?

Will the PRC come to their defense? Russia? Iran? Who?

What has eight years of alliance and aid to them provided to us? A powerful ally committed to this war, much less the defense of their own sovereignty? It hasn't to date. That's certain.

They've only most recently and reluctantly found the determination to defend themselves FROM themselves.

As currently configured, everything about AFPAK is a WASTED enterprise that is so utterly FCUKED to be beyond unraveling back into coherancy.

We lack incisive focus to our objectives. We lack ethical good-faith partners in both Pakistan and Afghanistan's governments. We lack allies prepared to collectively meet our material and personnel commitments and THEN free them to perform at the same levels of violence that govern our increasingly restrictive ROEs.

Perhaps you want your armies to be police forces but I've little interest in seeing our's worry about carefully calibrating violence so as to kill without offending local sensibilities.

There's been a pissing match between our commonwealth friends and ourselves on who's the better COIN experts. The verdict is in- none of us. None.

Nor can we afford the interminable time, resources, and effort interposed to develop the seamless implementation of civil-military affairs that will reflect such in measurable and productive terms.

What we can afford to do is admit abject failure, withdraw from the "graveyard of empires", allow our enemies momentary ascendancy, and- when arrogantly visible, smack the ever-living sh!t out of them in a meaningful manner that will retain an indelible and near-permanent impression where it matters most- in the hearths and homes of our enemies.

Long, then, may we finally revel in facing our enemies in manly combat and reliving these tales of final victory in the campfires of our people. Long, then, may they tell the tales of much wailing and gnashing of teeth in the tribal campfires of their people.

I'm tired of a kinder, gentler war and wish to make the experience so unbearable to my enemies that they never again have the means nor inclination to wage cowardly proxy wars on us from behind the skirts of their women and children.

Fcuk 'em.

Those words above by that Pakistani are as starkly clear as I need.

**Luke Gu** · 06 Oct 09, 09:05

Oh，guys I know you Has provided considerable assistance to the Pakistan goverment，but do you do someting for Pakistan people？When your UAVs illegal cross-border killed Pakistani persons，do you still hope get their support？I don't think your assistance have wasted because the goverment still support you。When it comes to Pakistan people，can you tell me why they should support you？

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