Sorry, I thought you meant Pakistan Air Force there. Yes there was mutiny in the Bengali units of the army. But given that it was clear the PA was outnumbered and surrounded, it is not that surprising.Originally Posted by Kasrkin
I still hold that 70,000 soldiers murdering 3,000,000 civilians is dramatically unrealistic. But if you refuse to be realistic then I can point out that this number of 3 million is not neutrally sourced anyway. It is clearly not in the H. R. C. report, or international media, and his been discredited in research by neutral Bengali historians and others.The mathematics is just so that your claim of 70000 under resourced soldiers incapable of doing such a feat is debunked.
The fact that the Pakistani report is so self-critical speaks highly of the institutions that wrongs are recognized and corrected.
Not a single soldier (or civilian) was punished for what happened in Bangladesh. Many of the army officials involved got promotions and went on to become even army chiefs, there was no public condemnation of those involved, Bhutto (who was a major factor in all that happened) went on to become the PM and then called the Bangladeshis "swine" in public meetings!
I am amazed you actually wrote that and expected one to believe it. Do you yourself believe it? Do you really think Pakistan has (or ever had) institutes with the attributes you mention here.
Or was it a sly trick of the plain old taqiya.
Last edited by Vinod2070; 08 Jan 11, at 18:10.
There are 10 kinds of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don’t..
It's not. I have no wish to make it a thread solely focused on this issue.
I have done my reading on this issue. You have your choice to just open the eyes.
There are 10 kinds of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don’t..
Do be good enough to read the Bangladeshi link I gave. It shows the actual pages and quotes with dates from the international media.
I could append the details, but that would not be in good taste.
Therefore, do have a look at the Bangladeshi link and check it out yourself before you feel everyone else, but Pakistanis, are talking through their hat!
Bangladesh Genocide Archive
As I see it, it is history.
It inflames many, but I say, you can't change the events. It happened and we could not nothing about it. It is not our fault.
Let those who a guilty rot in hell and we take a lesson that we must be careful since posterity will not treat us kindly!
Last edited by Ray; 08 Jan 11, at 18:22.
"Some have learnt many Tricks of sly Evasion, Instead of Truth they use Equivocation, And eke it out with mental Reservation, Which is to good Men an Abomination."
I don't have to attend every argument I'm invited to.
HAKUNA MATATA
The soldiers who fought in E. Pakistan were held prisoner by India for years in disregard of the Geneva Conventions (that require the unconditional return of prisoners of war after the cessation of hostilities). After the their return, most of the former PoWs left the service or were accommodated differently. Maybe there would have been a more thorough investigation and more serious reprimand if their return home wasn't so torturously delayed and mired in political controversy by Indian demands in exchange for their safe return. The generals responsible for the failures of the war were all sidelined if not dismissed, Tikka Khan, Niazi among others. I know there was reprimand, the report is one indication of this. The fact remains that the report being critical, obviously in proportion to the facts on the ground, DOES speak highly of the institutions in terms of acknowledging past mistakes and failures. But these mistakes did not amount to genocide. It was hardly the most proudest moment in our history, but unrealistic and unsubstantiated claims of millions being executed from clearly partial sources is not enough for me to agree with your picture.
Last edited by Kasrkin; 08 Jan 11, at 18:31.
I did go over the link and I mentioned that. Here:Do be good enough to read the Bangladeshi link I gave. It shows the actual pages and quotes with dates from the international media.
According to New York Times (3/28/71) 10,000 people were killed; New York Times (3/29/71) 5,000-7,000 people were killed in Dhaka; The Sydney Morning Herald (3/29/71) 10,000 – 100,000 were killed; New York Times (4/1/71) 35,000 were killed in Dhaka during operation searchlight.
These numbers are hardly likely to be completely accurate, given how varying they are. But they do not correspond with 3,000,000 for goodness sake.
Where to you get your fantasies from.
I am witness to the Pak PsW.
They had their Officers Mess and were given Scotch.
The troops got the same rations as the Indian Army personnel!
Torturous delays?
What do you think they were there for?
A Christmas party?
So, if PsW remain in custody, it is India's fault.
By your logic, I presume they should have been kept at a 7 Star Hotel and repatriated forthwith in Chartered sleeper class aircraft!
Come on.
Indeed the killings done by the Pak Army of Bengalis were well deserved by the Bengalis and of course, they were not genocide. It was mere reduction of the population since East Pakistan was too densely populated!
Forgive me, while one understands your consternation, but illogical outbursts devoid of facts do upset!
And I am a Bengali and my religion does not come in the way of ethnicity and when I have seen what was done!
Last edited by Ray; 08 Jan 11, at 18:36.
"Some have learnt many Tricks of sly Evasion, Instead of Truth they use Equivocation, And eke it out with mental Reservation, Which is to good Men an Abomination."
I don't have to attend every argument I'm invited to.
HAKUNA MATATA
^^ Your own government delayed the return of those soldiers, looking for gains elsewhere during the negotiations. Please read the story of the Simla negotiations.
We kept the soldiers safe. You can well imagine their condition had they fallen into Bengali hands.
There are 10 kinds of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don’t..
They seem to talk of specific events at a particular place (Dhaka).
The overall figure would be for the entire 9 months period all across Bangladesh. No?
There are 10 kinds of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don’t..
Read carefully.
It was more about Dhaka (Dacca) and towns!
Sorry to cut your jubilation short, where the figures elated you and you gave the go by to read it all, just to post and 'prove' your point.The main phase of Operation Searchlight ended with the fall of the last major town in Bengali hands in mid May.
According to New York Times (3/28/71) 10,000 people were killed; New York Times (3/29/71) 5,000-7,000 people were killed in Dhaka; The Sydney Morning Herald (3/29/71) 10,000 – 100,000 were killed; New York Times (4/1/71) 35,000 were killed in Dhaka during operation searchlight.
It has turned out to be similar to an Australian indigenous weapon!
You did not append this of the same report:
Keep scrolling down and read more.The operation also began the 1971 Bangladesh atrocities. These systematic killings served only to enrage the Bengalis, which ultimately resulted in the secession of East Pakistan later in December, 1971. The international media and reference books in English have published casualty figures which vary greatly; 200,000–3,000,000 for Bangladesh as a whole.
There is only one word for this: Genocide.
Last edited by Ray; 08 Jan 11, at 18:46.
"Some have learnt many Tricks of sly Evasion, Instead of Truth they use Equivocation, And eke it out with mental Reservation, Which is to good Men an Abomination."
I don't have to attend every argument I'm invited to.
HAKUNA MATATA
Alright then. I know that the Bhutto government's first priority was to get the prisoners home, in fact its very survival likely depended on it. That you don't agree that Pakistan wanted the prisoners back is hardly surprising to me, from your perspective I suppose Pakistan's reluctance to accept Indian demands in exchange for the prisoners 'proves' that we weren't serious about getting them home. Whatever, no point arguing about that. The point I made though holds, that they were not home for years and most were not part of the service after, so its obviously more complicated than what you implied. I don't want to jump from issue to issue, I think we're off topic anyway.
Right, but Dacca is the biggest city and operation Search Light is bandied about as the genocidal operation to those who subscribe to such a take. These are the only references to the international media I found, fact is they do not even remotely approach the numbers proponents of the genocide theory insist on. I confess I'm not arguing with any of my own sources ATM, only through your own, which I pointed out is not impartial. So I'll prefer to let it drop, but I still hold that what you've provided so far is not neutral or credible enough to back your spectacular claims, your confidence and self-belief in them notwithstanding.It was about Dhaka (Dacca) = one city!
Well, Bhutto government calculated (correctly) that India will have to release the soldiers and gave priority to other bargaining chips. This is quite an open fact and I am sure you would be able to verify it.
I am not saying they didn't want the soldiers back (I know what you are refering to here though).
Searchlight is considered the start of a brutal 9 months long period in Bangladesh.Right, but Dacca is the biggest city and operation Search Light is bandied about as the genocidal operation to those who subscribe to such a take. These are the only references to the international media I found, fact is they do not even remotely approach the numbers proponents of the genocide theory insist on. I confess I'm not arguing with any of my own sources ATM, only through your own, which I pointed out is not impartial. So I'll prefer to let it drop, but I still hold that what you've provided so far is not neutral or credible enough to back your spectacular claims, your confidence and self-belief in them notwithstanding.
You have anything to say about Yahya's comment that I shared?
There are 10 kinds of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don’t..
This isn't a history board nor, till now, has this thread been devoted to Kashmir, Sri Lanka, Balochistan nor Bangladesh. Thread de-railment has long since occurred. The use of any language but english is, btw, prohibited. The thread is locked and may not be reopened.
"This aggression will not stand, man!"
Jeff Lebowski
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