Thread: Welcome To Pakistan

Originally Posted by Chaobam Armour

Rules of Engagement define when a soldier can legally open fire and kill, or when they can engage with Air Support, or Heavy Artillery, who can and who cannot enter occupied buildings etc. They will be given what part of the 'Rules of Engagement they can use prior to going out on Patrol.

You can no longer go out on patrol and frag up the place.

A Sniper for example will not be able to open up on someone unless it is positively identified as carrying a weapon that is an immediate threat to colition forces.

Political Correctness gone mad.

Did you not know of the 'Rules of Engagement'?

Agree with your point on the rules of engagement, but what I meant was that more soldiers are needed to maintain law and order in Afghanistan, build infrastructure to help centralize the country, and try to iron out the Afghan Police and actually try to make them a less corrupt and a more efficient force. Afghan national units should be spread out all across the country to actually spread influence, unlike now where the Taliban can easily walk into and occupy villages. Also, I wonder if a lot of Afghan villages even have Police stations or at least a police outpost?

It is not a soldiers job to maintain Law and Order, thats the job of the Police.

Some reasons

Drones attacks rose hate for Americans because drone planning didn't prove perfections and many time simple people come under attacks.

Further more why Pakistanis hated Americans because they understand and experienced that in every difficult & crucial situation America left Pakistan alone in past and in Indo-Pak relations America always showed her interest with India. 1965 Indo-Pak war changed Pakistani politics and force him to change his trustable friend i mean till 1965 Pakistani government showed interest in Pro American block but in this war when America help India more than Pakistan than Pakistan came towards China.

Further more America put military & economical sanctions on Pakistan because of its atomic program (1998) but India was free from all these sanctions in 1974 (no sanctions) unless she had also atomic program, India Pakistan both made atomic experiments but why sanctions must bear Pakistan more than India?
May 18, 1974: India Tests First Nuclear Device
(Kissinger: 'Fait Accompli' - Pakistan, India’s regional opponent, is extremely unhappy with the test, which apparently confirms India’s military superiority. Due to the obvious difficulties producing its own nuclear bomb, Pakistan first tries to find a diplomatic solution. It asks the US to provide it with a nuclear umbrella, without much hope of success. Relations between Pakistan and the US, once extremely close, have been worsening for some years. Secretary of State Henry Kissinger tells Pakistan’s ambassador to Washington that the test is “a fait accompli and that Pakistan would have to learn to live with it,” although he is aware this is a “little rough” on the Pakistanis.
No Punishment - No sanctions are imposed on India, or the countries that sold the technology to it, and they continue to help India’s nuclear program. Pakistani foreign minister Agha Shahi will later say that, if Kissinger had replied otherwise, Pakistan would have not started its own nuclear weapons program and that “you would never have heard of A. Q. Khan.” Shahi also points out to his colleagues that if Pakistan does build a bomb, then it will probably not suffer any sanctions either.)

Pakistan ever tried to stand parallel and wanted from world to behave equally with India & Pakistan but this didn't happened.

In Economics and trade America didn't give Pakistan access to her markets and particular quota in Textile sector unless America counted Pakistan as trustable friend but no opportunity to develop.

Recently Pakistani politicians and people hardly criticised Kerry-Lugar bill as America want to control Pakistan's civil & military independence so scene is quite not difficult to understand.

These all facts forced Pakistani people to sure themselves that America is not a friend but enemy.

History not so sweet but it is fact.

Pakistani government ever showed its interest to America but people didn't like friendship with America and they have some reasons for it.

Originally Posted by Chaobam Armour

It is not a soldiers job to maintain Law and Order, thats the job of the Police.

Agreed, but until the Police are efficient enough to do it, someone has to do it.

Not soldiers though, they have a far different skill set than Police, like Police can't do what soldiers do. That is why the British have 'Mentoring Teams' out in the Stan.

Originally Posted by diplomaticview

Some reasons

Drones attacks rose hate for Americans because drone planning didn't prove perfections and many time simple people come under attacks.

Further more why Pakistanis hated Americans because they understand and experienced that in every difficult & crucial situation America left Pakistan alone in past and in Indo-Pak relations America always showed her interest with India. 1965 Indo-Pak war changed Pakistani politics and force him to change his trustable friend i mean till 1965 Pakistani government showed interest in Pro American block but in this war when America help India more than Pakistan than Pakistan came towards China.

Pakistan was part of CENTO long after the 1965 war. The Americans funneled weapons to the Pakistanis through Turkey in the '71 war, turned a blind eye to Pakistani army atrocities in Bangladesh, and even sent the US Kitty Hawk to deter India from attacking Pakistan. Add to that decades of military aid provided by America to the Pakistanis, and for the past few years, even poured billions of dollars into that country. It is not they who turned out to be a bad ally.

And America helped India? You do realize they were your allies at the time, and were the one reason why India went from a neutral stance to a pro-Soviet stance, right?

Further more America put military & economical sanctions on Pakistan because of its atomic program (1998) but India was free from all these sanctions in 1974 (no sanctions) unless she had also atomic program, India Pakistan both made atomic experiments but why sanctions must bear Pakistan more than India?

Go re-educate yourself mate. India has faced US sanctions since 1974. The 1998 sanctions were peanuts compared to the technology denial sanctions which US has had against India since the 70s. Even after the 1998 sanctions were waived for both India and Pakistan, India's sanctions from '74 were not. Though, those sanctions are probably one of the reasons why India has had so much focus in building a home grown defense industry.

Pakistan ever tried to stand parallel and wanted from world to behave equally with India & Pakistan but this didn't happened.

And that's because India and Pakistan are not equal from any angle.

In Economics and trade America didn't give Pakistan access to her markets and particular quota in Textile sector unless America counted Pakistan as trustable friend but no opportunity to develop.

Recently Pakistani politicians and people hardly criticised Kerry-Lugar bill as America want to control Pakistan's civil & military independence so scene is quite not difficult to understand.

There is no such thing as a free lunch. You should be happy that for so many years your country got the aid without taking on any accountability.

These all facts forced Pakistani people to sure themselves that America is not a friend but enemy.

History not so sweet but it is fact.

Pakistani government ever showed its interest to America but people didn't like friendship with America and they have some reasons for it.

Too bad those "facts" are a delusion.

Originally Posted by Chaobam Armour

Not soldiers though, they have a far different skill set than Police, like Police can't do what soldiers do. That is why the British have 'Mentoring Teams' out in the Stan.

Hmmm.. Maybe have those Police outposts set-up, if not for anything else than to monitor their area or designated village for Talibunnies, so when they do pop up, the troops can be called in to sanitize the area. Or..... Afghani SWAT anyone? :P

That is what the Brits do, we make safe a village, meet with village elders. Call in the Royal Engineers, who build Out Posts, F.O.B.s' and Police Stations. We the build schools, Medical Centres, and dig wells.

Originally Posted by Chaobam Armour

That is what the Brits do, we make safe a village, meet with village elders. Call in the Royal Engineers, who build Out Posts, F.O.B.s' and Police Stations. We the build schools, Medical Centres, and dig wells.

I reckon its the way to go. I'm sure with time, the results of the good work done by your boys will eventually start to be seen.

(Though I still believe a surge in troop levels is still needed, even if just to be at more places at once.)