Iowa Class vs Kirov Class

[SteaminDemon]

So is it you Seasick?

I guess you do not realize the contributions of Mr. Lehman and what he has done for the Navy. You should back up your claim as to how Mr. Weinberger hated Mr. Lehman. Those two together were most influential to our military. They brought back competition, something that is now gone, Cost plus fee nightmares were out the window, the BOSS program was successful. There are many other contributions that Lehman and Weinberger gave to the DOD.
Since Lehman and Weinberger, no one else has accomplished anything remotely to what they both did.
Just about Everything has reversed course and that is why we are in the situations that are currently going on.

Attack me all you want, that is I guess what you can only resort to. You seem to be able to dish it out, but certainly cant take it. I do look forward to debating with you, but you can save all the attacks though. Keep them to yourself.

Do you have a copy of the NEJ article from 84? I am unsure of other studies other than the 3 750 KW considerations you mentioned. You have offered no valid explanation as to why re powering/upgrading can not be done.

[Shipwreck]

Originally Posted by SteaminDemon

So is it you Seasick?

Don't know what this may have to do with the discussion, but hey, there you go : I've never been seasick in my life, but I tend to be terribly airsick, especially in choppers.

Originally Posted by SteaminDemon

I guess you do not realize the contributions of Mr. Lehman and what he has done for the Navy. You should back up your claim as to how Mr. Weinberger hated Mr. Lehman.

(ignorant BS snipped)

John Lehman (spit, puke ) is nothing but a PIMP, and a CRIMINAL one at that.

Donald Jones once told me he heard Weinberger say : "when I hear the name Lehman, I reach for my Colt" or something to that effect.

Among many others, both Colin Powell and Donald Jones also had the greatest despise for John Lehman (spit, puke ).

Originally Posted by SteaminDemon

You have offered no valid explanation as to why re powering/upgrading can not be done.

Either you haven't read what I said in post #145, or you have some massive comprehension problem, or, even worst, you're one of Stearman's (spit, puke ) trolls. In any case, trying to *debate* with you is probably going to be a considerable waste of time...

[SteaminDemon]

Originally Posted by Shipwreck

Don't know what this may have to do with the discussion, but hey, there you go : I've never been seasick in my life, but I tend to be terribly airsick, especially in choppers.



John Lehman (spit, puke ) is nothing but a PIMP, and a CRIMINAL one at that.

Donald Jones once told me he heard Weinberger say : "when I hear the name Lehman, I reach for my Colt" or something to that effect.

Among many others, both Colin Powell and Donald Jones also had the greatest despise for John Lehman (spit, puke ).



Either you haven't read what I said in post #145, or you have some massive comprehension problem, or, even worst, you're one of Stearman's (spit, puke ) trolls.

I have read post 145. So, it is not impossible and can be done. Shipwreck, I am not one of Stearman's trolls. About the seasick thing, It was in reference to someone on the Warships 1 forum. Was wondering if that is you.

Well, about Lehman, he is no pimp or criminal. As I have said, no one since Cap and Lehman have even come close to their accomplishments. You should read up on Cap, Lehman and the accomplishments of those men. The pimps and criminals came around after Cap and Lehman. The criminal contractors had great despise for Lehman and Cap.

Considerable waste of time? Think what you want. You pick and choose what you want and have not offered any real explanations to your posts.

As to your avatar, have you been by the memorial on NOB?

[Shipwreck]

Originally Posted by SteaminDemon

I have read post 145. So, it is not impossible and can be done.

Only an idiot would do it.

Originally Posted by SteaminDemon

About the seasick thing, It was in reference to someone on the Warships 1 forum. Was wondering if that is you.

If you have a problem with some guy on another forum, solve it over there and stop complaining about someone who cannot defend himself over here.

Originally Posted by SteaminDemon

Well, about Lehman, he is no pimp or criminal.

John Lehman (spit, puke ) is a CRIMINAL PIMP.

Go back to posts #140 & #141.

John Lehman (spit, puke ) should have been keel hauled for that.

Originally Posted by SteaminDemon

As to your avatar, have you been by the memorial on NOB?

None of your business.

[SteaminDemon]

Originally Posted by Shipwreck

Only an idiot would consider doing it.



If you have a problem with some guy on another forum, solve it over there and stop complaining about someone who cannot defend himself over here.



John Lehman (spit, puke ) is a CRIMINAL PIMP.

Go back to posts #140 & #141.

John Lehman (spit, puke ) should have been keel hauled for that.



None of your business.

OK, so it is not you, never had a problem with that person anyway. I was just curious if you were him, that's all.

John Lehman should have been keel hauled? How about EUCOM and others associated in that debacle.

Well, I guess all those people in the ship yards are idiots for cutting open ships for equipment removal when necessary.

[Shipwreck]

Originally Posted by SteaminDemon

Well, I guess all those people in the ship yards are idiots for cutting open ships for equipment removal when necessary.

What I am saying is that only an idiot would pretend cutting through deck armor on BBs or CAs was the way to go, despite what people who've been there done that recommended at the time.

[Shipwreck]

Originally Posted by SteaminDemon

John Lehman should have been keel hauled? How about EUCOM and others associated in that debacle.

There's only ONE person *from Washington* who issued fateful orders on the early morning of 4 December 1983.

[SteaminDemon]

Originally Posted by Shipwreck

What I am saying is that only an idiot would pretend cutting through deck armor on BBs or CAs was the way to go, despite what people who've been there done that recommended at the time.

I do hear you shipwereck. The point is, if they may ever decide to do so, it is not impossible. The upgrade would be the greatest benefit to the ship if done. You might as well do it right the first time and not have to worry about any future power requirement issues down the road, requiring additional work to repower yet again.

One other question shipwreck. What was the dimensions of the single 750KW generator they were planning on? (of the 3 that were proposed)
Can you please send me the May 84 NEJ article? Thanks

[Shipwreck]

Originally Posted by SteaminDemon

not have to worry about any future power requirement issues down the road, requiring additional work to repower yet again.

Future power requirements ? For what ? Lasers, railguns ?

Originally Posted by SteaminDemon

One other question shipwreck. What was the dimensions of the single 750KW generator they were planning on? (of the 3 that were proposed)

I don't have the notes I took back then, but I seem to vaguely remember these were going to be the same SSDGs as those used on the Newport-class LTSs.

Originally Posted by SteaminDemon

Can you please send me the May 84 NEJ article?

No, but you should be able to obtain a copy from ASNE (for about $5 ?).

[SteaminDemon]

Originally Posted by Shipwreck

Future power requirements ? For what ? Lasers, railguns ?

Lasers and railguns, wouldn't that be nice. Maintaining redundancy. That is the main reason. As I have said, you would only need to run 5 while underway, so that leaves 3 down. Plenty of room for any other additions they would wish to make as well.

Originally Posted by Shipwreck

I don't have the notes I took back then, but I seem to vaguely remember these were going to be the same SSDGs as those used on the Newport-class LTSs.

The Newport LST was built back in the 60's (there were 20 of em). I saw one of them when we went to spain. Definetely better option would be a newer TG or DG.

Originally Posted by Shipwreck

No, but you should be able to obtain a copy from ASNE (for about $5 ?).

Thanks

[Gun Grape]

Originally Posted by SteaminDemon

Well, about Lehman, he is no pimp or criminal. As I have said, no one since Cap and Lehman have even come close to their accomplishments. You should read up on Cap, Lehman and the accomplishments of those men. The pimps and criminals came around after Cap and Lehman. The criminal contractors had great despise for Lehman and Cap.

Wow you should go back and google the Operation Ill Wind investigation. All during Cap and Lehmans (spit, puke) term.

[Shipwreck]

Originally Posted by Gun Grape

Wow you should go back and google the Operation Ill Wind investigation. All during Cap and Lehmans (spit, puke) term.

[gunnut]

Originally Posted by Shipwreck

Take off that tinfoil hat and stop listening to your imaginary friends.

The video below, showing a Sovremenny-class destroyer (from 00:44 onwards : Admiral Ushakov, ex-Besstrashny, pennant number 434) during a September 2004 deployment in the Barents Sea, clearly illustrates the benefits of a broad waterplane hull in heavy weather.

Is that the same type of hull the Burkes have? I noticed the Burkes have a very wide beam that flares out, unlike the previous destroyers we had.

What is your opinion of the Mk 45 5" gun? Is it better to have a relatively slow 5" gun like this or a very fast 3" gun like the OTO super rapid?

[SteaminDemon]

Originally Posted by Gun Grape

Wow you should go back and google the Operation Ill Wind investigation. All during Cap and Lehmans (spit, puke) term.

Spit puke term. We are in so much better shape now more than ever the way you are talking, which in reality is not the case. The law that was passed as a result of the investigation was needed anyway. Cap and Lehman were not convicted though.

How about the huge claims against the navy by Electric Boat, Litton and Newport News? That was the right thing to do and didn't rob taxpayers of their money right? John Lehman along with Mr. Skallerup built a litigation strike team which took the claims process and used it against the contractors. The contractors were practicing these "claims" against the Navy in their contracts for a very long time until Lehman sought to put an end to it. It was successful.

If we would have left things the way the Carter administration was headed we would be building smaller non nuke CVV's instead of the Nimtz CVN's of which there were many critics. (first one commissioned by Ford). That was stopped by Reagan, Cap, and Lehman. Lehman played a major role in getting the money approved by congress for long lead items such as the carriers. 1979 was when it was implemented in the final defense bill. Carter was infuriated with the Nimitz Carriers and vetoed the entire defense bill to kill the aircraft carrier. John Lehman fought diligently to kill the CVV and replace it with more Nimitz carriers. He was successful and we can thank him and others like Senator Jackson and Senator Tower for the continuation of the Nimitz class carriers.

Without going into any further detail, the military was left better off because of those in the Reagan administration. Morale and quality of training was a goal, and they were successful in that. The aircraft modernization and procurement was successful among many other things implemented by the Reagan administration. Things like tomahawk and all kinds of other projects may not have happened, or happened much later if it weren't for the Reagan administration.

Cost plus fee no ceiling contracting nightmares were to be a thing of the past during the Reagan years, now they are the mainstream and the way of the future.

So complain if you must, but like I have said, no administration has come close to the accomplishments of Reagan, Cap, Lehman and that is a fact. Yes, there were some unfortunate happenings along the way, as there is with any administration.

[Shipwreck]

Originally Posted by SteaminDemon

no administration has come close to the accomplishments of Reagan, Cap, Lehman and that is a fact.

(ignorant BS snipped).

The only thing Lehman (spit, puke ) did during his tenure was to build castles made of sands, which fell in the sea, eventually.

I was going to mention Vistica's book (Fall from Glory: The Men Who Sank the U.S. Navy ) but the review published in Airpower Journal pretty much sums it all up :

The portrait Vistica paints is one of constant struggle within the Pentagon between ambitious bureaucrats like Navy secretary John Lehman and an old boys’ network of ring-knocking admirals like Adm Tom Hayward, whose internecine clashes were fought without regard to the best interests of the Navy, the taxpayer, or the nation.

The result of this struggle was a bloated Navy struggling to attain Lehman’s unsupportable six-hundred-ship goal and utterly lacking in moral leadership.

The subsequent decline in discipline and effectiveness should not be surprising.

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