Bring Back The Iowa Class Discussion And Debate - Page 20

Dreadnought · 12-19-2007, 11:14 AM

In short there is nothing out there sailing the oceans of the world that would warrant us to put the Iowas back in commision. Their material condition is extremely well for their age and that is exactly why they are kept and maintained by their foundations. Now lets just say Russia put a Kirov or two back to sea on a permanent basis then such actions may warrant a refit and an upgrade for the Iowa's but only the best shall go. Until then they are only a stand by museum and show the public some interesting things about them that their tax money has paid for.

The boggie man isint out there, But if we put the Iowas back to sea then the boogie man is out there and he is US!

HistoricalDavid · 12-19-2007, 11:40 AM

This, this, and this are far more accurate symbols of American power post-1941 than this.

Hell, how about this and this?

Quote:

I am just a lover of the Battleships, and would love to see them in all their glory.

Basically it. Romance. Glory. Nostalgia. Feelgood.

Dreadnought · 12-19-2007, 12:42 PM

Basically it. Romance. Glory. Nostalgia. Feelgood

Perhaps from the outside looking in but not necesessarily from the inside looking outwards.

dundonrl · 12-19-2007, 22:09 PM

well.. I do remember a Soviet admiral saying that the ships he was most afraid of was our Iowa class battleships.. because he said he had no surface ships that were capable of sinking them..

georgeky · 12-20-2007, 05:28 AM

I appreciate everyones opinions, but to this day there is no other ship that can do what the Iowa's can do. Very few things in this day and age can sink them. Their service record speaks well to that. They have been hit by missles, tordedos Kamkozis, mines and all with little effect on them. Iowa's have seen lots of action and not one has been sunk. Iowas have ability to make repairs on herself while under way, as well as repairs to other ships of the battle group. They are able to supply other ships of the group. They are paid for. The cost of reactivation is small when compared to building new ships or even a couple of planes. As far as the fear factor I mentioned earlier, everyone pays attention when an Iowa shows up. Some world leaders fear them more than any other US ship, including carriers. Nothing else can put the amount of ordinance on target in the same timeframe as an Iowa. Including carriers. If I go into combat on the ground I want to be in a main battle tank. If I go into battle at sea, I want to be aboard a battleship.

Merry Chritmas to all.

JA Boomer · 12-20-2007, 05:45 AM

Seriously man, I don't think you're being objective about this whole thing.

They are very well armored, with hull armor designed to withstand 18-inch shells and such. Modern missiles may not even dent the hull. But lets not be foolish, they are not invincible, and they can be sunk.

What offensive threat do they bring the blue water navy? Do you think in a real shooting war an enemy surface ship is going to be anywhere close to the Iowa's gun range. No, why, 1) because yes it would be suicide and 2) because they have already been taken care of by other modern US Navy assets!

georgeky · 12-20-2007, 06:02 AM

I am being objective, as well as frugle. If their mere presence keeps the enemy away then it has saved lives. They can be sunk. The Titanic went down didn't it? We in this country are to quick to retire perfectly good equipment in favor of technology that may or may not be better in the big picture, or even exist yet. The best defense in all cases is a stong offense. Nothing conveys that like the battleships. Someone mentioned the boogy man, if that is the US that suits me. We will have to agree to disagree about the Iowas, as I will not change my thoughts or opinions of them. They are some of the best ships to ever sail the seas. They may even be reactivated as there is a lot of support for this by folks like me as well as many retired and active duty Naval officers. Before you decide they are of no use in modern times, maybe you should read up on their capabilities.

JA Boomer · 12-20-2007, 06:08 AM

Dude...

OK, I'm not going to debate you anymore on this issue either. You have a strong opinion on the subject and I can repect that.

I know plenty about their capabilities, and by no means do I think they are worthless in modern times. In a perfect world, sure, the Iowa's would be sailing the seas. However, given the current state of the US Navy, there is no need for the reactivation of the Iowa's, and it would only detract from current operations.

I do have one question for you: what is it about the Iowa class that you think foreign leaders and military officials 'fear'?

georgeky · 12-20-2007, 06:41 AM

The fact that they can rain down upon them if need be. I have been deployed to several places around the world right after their last activation, and everywhere I went folks would talk about the battleships. My brother served on the USS Saratogo during the trouble with Lybia. His battle group relieved the Missouri in the Med, and even our own sailors stood in awl of the Mighty Mo as she steamed past them. I seen her and the Wisconsin in port and heard many speak of the shear firepower that could wipe them from them this world. It is easy not to fear them when you are an allie, but not so easy for those who are not. I come from a long line of military folks going back to the Revelutionary War, I myself served in the US Army( to include combat in Grenada) and am aware of the psycological aspects of being outgunned. Just the presence of a battleship of the coast of a potential enemy will play with their mind, and sends a strong message.

HistoricalDavid · 12-20-2007, 07:23 AM

Do you think Osama bin Laden would give a toss about the battleships, or naval airpower?

georgeky · 12-20-2007, 07:39 AM

Don't know, the coward is hiding from the guns. He certainly would if he seen it coming after him.

JA Boomer · 12-20-2007, 14:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by georgeky

The fact that they can rain down upon them if need be. I have been deployed to several places around the world right after their last activation, and everywhere I went folks would talk about the battleships. My brother served on the USS Saratogo during the trouble with Lybia. His battle group relieved the Missouri in the Med, and even our own sailors stood in awl of the Mighty Mo as she steamed past them. I seen her and the Wisconsin in port and heard many speak of the shear firepower that could wipe them from them this world. It is easy not to fear them when you are an allie, but not so easy for those who are not. I come from a long line of military folks going back to the Revelutionary War, I myself served in the US Army( to include combat in Grenada) and am aware of the psycological aspects of being outgunned. Just the presence of a battleship of the coast of a potential enemy will play with their mind, and sends a strong message.

Yep, any large target within 38 kilometers of the beach should be worried...but other than that?

HKDan · 12-20-2007, 20:19 PM

Rain down on who? Are you advocating shelling the coast of some poor country with that massive firepower? Is that even mildly politically acceptable?

Gun Grape · 12-20-2007, 21:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by georgeky

The fact that they can rain down upon them if need be.

In the current conflicts where in Afghanistan could the Iowas "Rain down"?

And outside of the peninsula of Iraq, where could they hit?

Answer. Nowhere

Quote:

Just the presence of a battleship of the coast of a potential enemy will play with their mind, and sends a strong message.

Didn't seem to work that way in 1983.

Did you like the airport? I got to see the northern part of the island.

Maybe you can answer the question posed by Gen Vessey

Quote:

We have two companies of Marines running rampant all over the northern half of this island, and three Army regiments pinned down in the southwestern corner, doing nothing. What the hell is going on?"

General John W. Vessey Jr., United States Army; Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff During the assault on Grenada; 1983

gf0012-aust · 12-21-2007, 03:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by georgeky

Nothing else can put the amount of ordinance on target in the same timeframe as an Iowa. Including carriers.

actually, I think you'll find that an SSGN does - at longer ranges .....

12-19-2007, 11:14 AM	#286 (permalink)
Dreadnought *Senior Contributor* Join Date: 05-12-05 Posts: 5,199 Country:	In short there is nothing out there sailing the oceans of the world that would warrant us to put the Iowas back in commision. Their material condition is extremely well for their age and that is exactly why they are kept and maintained by their foundations. Now lets just say Russia put a Kirov or two back to sea on a permanent basis then such actions may warrant a refit and an upgrade for the Iowa's but only the best shall go. Until then they are only a stand by museum and show the public some interesting things about them that their tax money has paid for. The boggie man isint out there, But if we put the Iowas back to sea then the boogie man is out there and he is US! __________________ Fortitude.....The strength to persist...The courage to endure. Last edited by Dreadnought : 12-19-2007 at 11:17 AM.

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12-19-2007, 12:42 PM	#288 (permalink)
Dreadnought *Senior Contributor* Join Date: 05-12-05 Posts: 5,199 Country:	Basically it. Romance. Glory. Nostalgia. Feelgood Perhaps from the outside looking in but not necesessarily from the inside looking outwards.

12-19-2007, 22:09 PM	#289 (permalink)
dundonrl *Military Professional* Join Date: 03-23-07 Posts: 110	well.. I do remember a Soviet admiral saying that the ships he was most afraid of was our Iowa class battleships.. because he said he had no surface ships that were capable of sinking them..

12-20-2007, 05:28 AM	#290 (permalink)
georgeky New Member Join Date: 08-05-07 Posts: 16	I appreciate everyones opinions, but to this day there is no other ship that can do what the Iowa's can do. Very few things in this day and age can sink them. Their service record speaks well to that. They have been hit by missles, tordedos Kamkozis, mines and all with little effect on them. Iowa's have seen lots of action and not one has been sunk. Iowas have ability to make repairs on herself while under way, as well as repairs to other ships of the battle group. They are able to supply other ships of the group. They are paid for. The cost of reactivation is small when compared to building new ships or even a couple of planes. As far as the fear factor I mentioned earlier, everyone pays attention when an Iowa shows up. Some world leaders fear them more than any other US ship, including carriers. Nothing else can put the amount of ordinance on target in the same timeframe as an Iowa. Including carriers. If I go into combat on the ground I want to be in a main battle tank. If I go into battle at sea, I want to be aboard a battleship. Merry Chritmas to all.

12-20-2007, 05:45 AM	#291 (permalink)
JA Boomer Contributor Join Date: 07-10-07 Location: Banff, Alberta Posts: 355 Country:	Seriously man, I don't think you're being objective about this whole thing. They are very well armored, with hull armor designed to withstand 18-inch shells and such. Modern missiles may not even dent the hull. But lets not be foolish, they are not invincible, and they can be sunk. What offensive threat do they bring the blue water navy? Do you think in a real shooting war an enemy surface ship is going to be anywhere close to the Iowa's gun range. No, why, 1) because yes it would be suicide and 2) because they have already been taken care of by other modern US Navy assets!

12-20-2007, 06:02 AM	#292 (permalink)
georgeky New Member Join Date: 08-05-07 Posts: 16	I am being objective, as well as frugle. If their mere presence keeps the enemy away then it has saved lives. They can be sunk. The Titanic went down didn't it? We in this country are to quick to retire perfectly good equipment in favor of technology that may or may not be better in the big picture, or even exist yet. The best defense in all cases is a stong offense. Nothing conveys that like the battleships. Someone mentioned the boogy man, if that is the US that suits me. We will have to agree to disagree about the Iowas, as I will not change my thoughts or opinions of them. They are some of the best ships to ever sail the seas. They may even be reactivated as there is a lot of support for this by folks like me as well as many retired and active duty Naval officers. Before you decide they are of no use in modern times, maybe you should read up on their capabilities.

12-20-2007, 06:08 AM	#293 (permalink)
JA Boomer Contributor Join Date: 07-10-07 Location: Banff, Alberta Posts: 355 Country:	Dude... OK, I'm not going to debate you anymore on this issue either. You have a strong opinion on the subject and I can repect that. I know plenty about their capabilities, and by no means do I think they are worthless in modern times. In a perfect world, sure, the Iowa's would be sailing the seas. However, given the current state of the US Navy, there is no need for the reactivation of the Iowa's, and it would only detract from current operations. I do have one question for you: what is it about the Iowa class that you think foreign leaders and military officials 'fear'?

12-20-2007, 06:41 AM	#294 (permalink)
georgeky New Member Join Date: 08-05-07 Posts: 16	The fact that they can rain down upon them if need be. I have been deployed to several places around the world right after their last activation, and everywhere I went folks would talk about the battleships. My brother served on the USS Saratogo during the trouble with Lybia. His battle group relieved the Missouri in the Med, and even our own sailors stood in awl of the Mighty Mo as she steamed past them. I seen her and the Wisconsin in port and heard many speak of the shear firepower that could wipe them from them this world. It is easy not to fear them when you are an allie, but not so easy for those who are not. I come from a long line of military folks going back to the Revelutionary War, I myself served in the US Army( to include combat in Grenada) and am aware of the psycological aspects of being outgunned. Just the presence of a battleship of the coast of a potential enemy will play with their mind, and sends a strong message.

12-20-2007, 07:23 AM	#295 (permalink)
HistoricalDavid Distant Deeps or Skies *Senior Contributor* Join Date: 07-19-05 Location: North London, UK Posts: 1,970 Country:	Do you think Osama bin Laden would give a toss about the battleships, or naval airpower?

12-20-2007, 07:39 AM	#296 (permalink)
georgeky New Member Join Date: 08-05-07 Posts: 16	Don't know, the coward is hiding from the guns. He certainly would if he seen it coming after him.

12-20-2007, 20:19 PM	#298 (permalink)
HKDan Contributor Join Date: 05-23-06 Location: Hong Kong, Shanghai, Hangzhou, wherever the wife drags me Posts: 406 Country:	Rain down on who? Are you advocating shelling the coast of some poor country with that massive firepower? Is that even mildly politically acceptable?

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