Bring Back The Iowa Class Discussion And Debate

[TopHatter]

Originally Posted by raptor1992

nice. why aren't the congress thinking what we're thinking? battleship have lot's of firepower and is very useful in combat.

Simple.

1. No strong lobby that has a boatload of greenbacks to contribute to party and campaign coffers.

2. Reactivation will cost a decent amount of money and political capital.

In other words, 2 things guaranteed to send those elected Congressional whores running for the hills.

Who gives a damn about the lives of Sailors and Marines when things like money and politics are at stake?

[raptor1992]

very true. congressmembers can be damn bastards

[Anon]

Sorry for the delay in responding GG, i missed your most recent posts in the clutter.

"What is this FM 7-13"

My fault, i mistyped it's proper title. It's from FM 7-10(Infantry Rifle Company), chapter 7(Combat Support), part 13(Indirect Fires in Close Support), which i guess would make it FM 7-10-7-13?

http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita.../ch7.htm#c7p13

"7-13. INDIRECT FIRES IN CLOSE SUPPORT

Effective indirect fire support often requires artillery and mortar fires near our infantry soldiers. A safe integration of fires and maneuver this close demands careful planning, coordination, and knowledge of the supporting weapons. These close supporting fires are most commonly FPFs in a defensive operation and suppression/obscuration fires to support an assault on an enemy position. When planning these fires, the commander considers--

a. The Effect Required. In the defense, this may be to destroy enemy soldiers and to degrade the effectiveness of enemy vehicles by causing them to fight buttoned-up. In the attack, the suppression/obscuration of enemy positions to allow the breach and seizure of a foot hold on the objective is probably the desired effect.

b. The Accuracy of the Delivery System. There are many variables that impact on the accuracy of the weapon. The FSO has the technical knowledge to assist the commander. These weapons are area weapons systems; this means that every round fired from the same tube will impact in an area around the target or aiming point. This dispersion is greater in length than in width. The weather conditions (wind, temperature, and humidity), the condition of the weapon, and the proficiency of the crew also will affect the accuracy.

c. The Protection of his Unit as the Rounds are Impacting. If in well-prepared defensive positions with overhead cover, an FPF could be adjusted very close Oust beyond bursting range). If required, the CO could even call for artillery fires right on his company position using proximity or time fuses for air bursts. It is much more dangerous to call for close indirect fires during an attack. The CO considers the terrain, the breach site, and the enemy positions to determine how close to adjust his supporting indirect fires.

d. The Integration of Indirect Suppressive Fires. When integrating indirect suppressive fires to support the breach and assault, the following points are key:

(1) The danger increases with the size of the weapons. Use artillery to isolate the objective, use the battalion mortars on enemy positions away from the breach site, and use the 60-mm mortars, M203s, and direct fire weapons for close suppression.

(2) Safety is increased by assaulting perpendicular to the GT line. If the rounds are coming over the head of the assault element, the margin of safety is reduced.

(3) Company mortars firing direct lay or direct alignment are the most responsive system. They are able to observe the rounds impact and adjust accordingly. The safest method is when firing the 60-mm mortars with bipods.

(4) Ideally, the firing units will register prior to firing close-support missions. If not, the first rounds fired may be off target by a considerable distance. Once the firing units are adjusted on a target, then any shifts from that target are much more reliable.

e. Timings and Control. The final requirement for integrating these fires is to establish timings and control to ensure these targets are initiated, adjusted, and shifted properly. If possible the company FSO should locate where he can observe these targets (possibly with the support element). A detailed execution matrix that assigns responsibility for each target to the leader or FO who is in the best position to control them should be developed. These soldiers must know when each target/series/group is fired, what effect is desired on which enemy positions, and when to lift or shift the fires. Consider the use of pyrotechnic or other signals to ensure communication."

[Anon]

"I didn't forget that, She was used to test new torpedos. To get a full understanding of what type of "pounding" she took we would have to have access to the instructions to the ships and what weapons they fired."

Agreed, however, so far as i've been able to find, that info is lost to history, or just not on the net yet(heh, that rhymes).

[Anon]

" Now why does it not suprise me that the head of USNFSA would be the source of such an unverifiable story?"

Supposedly Cap Weinberger has told this story a few times too, but again, i cannot find any verifiable info.

[Gun Grape]

hey, the chance of them razor blades is looking better

This story has been bouncing around for about a month

SAN FRANCISCO - The USS Iowa joined in battles from World War II to Korea to the Persian Gulf. It carried President Franklin Roosevelt home from the Teheran conference of allied leaders, and four decades later, suffered one of the nation's most deadly military accidents.

Veterans groups and history buffs had hoped that tourists in San Francisco could walk the same teak decks where sailors dodged Japanese machine-gun fire and fired 16-inch guns that helped win battles across the South Pacific.

Instead, it appears that the retired battleship is headed about 80 miles inland, to Stockton, a gritty agricultural port town on the San Joaquin River and home of California's annual asparagus festival.

Sen. Dianne Feinstein (news, bio, voting record), D-Calif., a former San Francisco mayor, helped secure $3 million to tow the Iowa from Rhode Island to the Bay Area in 2001 in hopes of making touristy Fisherman's Wharf its new home.

But city supervisors voted 8-3 last month to oppose taking in the ship, citing local opposition to the
Iraq war and the military's stance on gays, among other things.

"If I was going to commit any kind of money in recognition of war, then it should be toward peace, given what our war is in Iraq right now," Supervisor Ross Mirkarimi said.

Feinstein called it a "very petty decision."

The rest can be read here: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050820/...hunned_warship

Didn't want to violate that "Fair Use" law

[TopHatter]

Sen. Dianne Feinstein D-Calif., a former San Francisco mayor, helped secure $3 million to tow the Iowa from Rhode Island to the Bay Area in 2001 in hopes of making touristy Fisherman's Wharf its new home.

Interesting, given her liberal bent, though not as extreme as Barbara Boxer's.

But city supervisors voted 8-3 last month to oppose taking in the ship, citing local opposition to the Iraq war and the military's stance on gays, among other things.

Well there's a big surprise. One of the most liberal and antiwar cities in the United States. Why in the hell should they be grateful for the sacrifices that the military has suffered, all to ensure they can be just as liberal and gay as they wannabe?

"If I was going to commit any kind of money in recognition of war, then it should be toward peace, given what our war is in Iraq right now," Supervisor Ross Mirkarimi said.

What the hell do you know about peace? The USS Iowa fought to preserve peace and freedom in 2 wars and during the chaotic 80s. But then again, what do you care about that Ross? You wouldnt know true hardship if it reached up and bit you in your lefty, tree-hugging, peace-symbol wearing nose.

Feinstein called it a "very petty decision."
"This isn't the San Francisco that I've known and loved and grew up in and was born in," Feinstein said.

Yes it is you naive blind fool. It most certainly IS the San Francisco that you know and love.

No surprises here folks. None whatsoever.

[SpoiderBoy]

Well, don't they have a WWII submarine anchored at the Fisherman's Wharf.
USS Pampanito, you can barely see it, unless you walk right next to it.

Besides I don't realize why they don't do anything with Alcatraz. Its one of the best locations in SF and it has a sad looking diplaidated prizon on it. What an eye sore.

Don't even get me started with Treasure Island

[magic-spaceship]

And liberals are always in shock when their patriotism is questioned.

[TopHatter]

Originally Posted by magic-spaceship

And liberals are always in shock when their patriotism is questioned.

These are also California liberals....the worst breed of all.
Followed closely by East Coast liberals.

[Dreadnought]

Im sure that if they were to offer Iowa to another state they would find a home for her. Hey im even thinking another "east" coast battleship lol.

[TopHatter]

Originally Posted by Dreadnought

Im sure that if they were to offer Iowa to another state they would find a home for her. Hey im even thinking another "east" coast battleship lol.

Too many already. Something of a glutted market on the East Coast.
Too many ships, not enough tourist dollars.
I'm wondering how New Jersey is doing financially...

[Dreadnought]

Originally Posted by TopHatter

Too many already. Something of a glutted market on the East Coast.
Too many ships, not enough tourist dollars.
I'm wondering how New Jersey is doing financially...

Believe it or not TopHattter they say the New Jersey is doing quite well. Not only can you tour pretty much the whole ship but they also host parties,functions, vets affairs and sleep outs for boy scouts among the usual holiday functions. Maybe the others should look into doing something like this to improve their bottom line.

[TopHatter]

Originally Posted by Dreadnought

Believe it or not TopHattter they say the New Jersey is doing quite well. Not only can you tour pretty much the whole ship but they also host parties,functions, vets affairs and sleep outs for boy scouts among the usual holiday functions. Maybe the others should look into doing something like this to improve their bottom line.

Hmph...seems like all you used to hear was how they were in dire financial straits, laying off employees, etc. Guess I should not expect anything better from the useless media.

Back in the day, only civic groups, Scout troops etc could do the overnight tours.
Nowadays, they've figured out that they should open their doors to any qualified group.

[magic-spaceship]

You see what they need to do is turn them into a ride. Like the paddle wheels on the mississipi. Just think you board in the morning and get to cruise around all day - have lunch and maybe have some gambling on board - then at the end they have a live fire demonstration of the 16inches. What better family entertainment can you find?