Future Battleship/Capital Ship Discussion

[B.Smitty]

Originally Posted by gunnut

Instead of battleships, I would suggest a renewed design of armored cruiser. Battleships are not invincible, doesn't matter how much armor. More armor means more weight, more machinery to push the extra weight, and more money spent on more of everything. All we need is enough armor to protect against 5" guns and small rockets and missiles. I think that's much more cost effective.

Instead of 13.5" guns, I would suggest either 6" or 8" guns, and only 2 or 3 tubes per ship. Modern designs can increase the rate of fire from a single tube to match that of multiple tubes of older design. Fewer guns means less weight, and much lower cost. Anything that can't be destroyed by 6" or 8" of guided shells can be destroyed by missiles or bombs dropped by aircraft.

To lower cost and save weight, my armored cruiser will not have Aegis system. Instead she will only have ESSM and Phalanx for local air defense. She is not designed to operate alone in high threat environment. She is to be part of an overall naval package, specialized in blockade and shore bombardment.

I would add a secondary armament of 4 OTO 76mm Super Rapid or 4 Bofors 57mm auto cannon against boat swarm tactics and supplement the main guns on shore bombardment.

This ship should be highly automated to reduce crew demand.

Even then, I see this ship as too expensive for limited roles she can perform. To increase her capabilities means a massive increase in cost. The money can be better spent on smaller destroyers and frigates that are less vulnerable to air threats and cheaper to replace.

I just thought I throw out my idea of a new armored cruiser for giggles.

Seems to me you want a stripped down DDG-1000.

Just take off the AAW and ASW suites, and make more room for munitions. (maybe keep a simplified SPY-3 for ESSM guidance, surface search, counterfire, etc).

If we decide down the road that we need more real multipurpose warships, we could always refit those subsystems as part of an upgrade.

[gunnut]

Originally Posted by B.Smitty

Seems to me you want a stripped down DDG-1000.

Just take off the AAW and ASW suites, and make more room for munitions. (maybe keep a simplified SPY-3 for ESSM guidance, surface search, counterfire, etc).

If we decide down the road that we need more real multipurpose warships, we could always refit those subsystems as part of an upgrade.

With armor...gotta have armor to be an armored cruiser.

But yeah, that's essentially what I have in mind. US anything tend to have a mission creep problem. A single purpose machine will come online as a multipurpose, jack of all trades military complex.

[HoratioNelson]

One interesting idea might be a reevaluation of the idea of the battlecruiser. That is, a battleship stripped of most of it's armour to gain greater speed, but still holding the same amount of firepower. The idea would be that the battlecruiser could outrun anything it couldn't outfight. Piling hundreds of VLS cells into a battleship frame, but with less armour to increase speed and still posessing large guns for VLS. That could work. With the highly mobile, long-ranged nature of modern naval combat, the idea of the battlecruiser could be an effective part of modern naval forces... Or they could blow up even more spectacularly than they did at Jutland. I really don't know.

[braindead]

Isn´t it already done - ex-Sov. ´Pjotr Veliki´class . Isn´t it a battlecruiser?

[HoratioNelson]

I don't know about any Pjotr Veliki class, but in terms of size and tonnage, the Russian Kirov class is a battlecruiser. Though it lacks the armour of a battlecruiser, so the Kirov is really just an oversized cruiser.

[braindead]

well , that´s what i meant , sorry , they have changed so many times their shipnames that it´s really confusing .

[HoratioNelson]

That's fine

I've also been thinking about the idea of a double hull for a modern battleship. Essentially there's an inner hull, totally air tight and with enough bouyancy to keep the entire ship afloat if the rest of it is filled with water. It would have at least another 200mm steel armour to protect the inner hull. With two hulls, you'd have one of the toughest ships, ever. Probably be one of the heaviest too, unfortunately.

I've also changed the amount of crewmen for my theoretical battleship. I estimate 650 men would be required to run the ship, with automation filling out as many jobs as it could reliably accomplish. Admittably it's more than Ticonderogas or Arleigh Burkes, but it's far, far less than any USN Supercarrier

[B.Smitty]

Originally Posted by gunnut

With armor...gotta have armor to be an armored cruiser.

But yeah, that's essentially what I have in mind. US anything tend to have a mission creep problem. A single purpose machine will come online as a multipurpose, jack of all trades military complex.

DD(X)s will have armor, though not to the extent you mean, of course.

[HoratioNelson]

Another thing i've been thinking about with the design of a modern battleship would be MERMAID electrical engine pods. With 360 degree improved manueverability, and lessened noise than conventional ship propellors, it would be a big improvement for any modern design of battleship.

What do you guys think about using engine pods like the MERMAID on modern warships?

Liquid propellant might be another thing to think about when considering a modern battleship. Liquid propellant offers far higher energy than regular powder like the Iowas used. Thus a battleship firing it's shells with a liquid propellant would have far greater range than if it was just using regular powder.

[B.Smitty]

Originally Posted by HoratioNelson

Another thing i've been thinking about with the design of a modern battleship would be MERMAID electrical engine pods. With 360 degree improved manueverability, and lessened noise than conventional ship propellors, it would be a big improvement for any modern design of battleship.

What do you guys think about using engine pods like the MERMAID on modern warships?

Liquid propellant might be another thing to think about when considering a modern battleship. Liquid propellant offers far higher energy than regular powder like the Iowas used. Thus a battleship firing it's shells with a liquid propellant would have far greater range than if it was just using regular powder.

There is at least one battleship thread on this board that go through the pros and cons of engine pods on warships.

I personally think the large, armored, gun-armed battleship has seen its time come and go.

[RustyBattleship]

I don't like catamaran hulls. They are so sharp in their pitches and rolls that even Jewish and Muslim crewmen will eat Pork to stop the sea sickness.

[Parihaka]

I love the idea of hydrofoils though

[gunnut]

Originally Posted by RustyBattleship

I don't like catamaran hulls. They are so sharp in their pitches and rolls that even Jewish and Muslim crewmen will eat Pork to stop the sea sickness.

Eating pork can stop sea sickness?

[RustyBattleship]

Originally Posted by gunnut

Eating pork can stop sea sickness?

For most people, yes. Usually the first night out on many ships that expect some sea conditions above state 2 or 3 the galley serves Roast Pork or Pork Chops. If it's morning, then it's Pork Chops.

It doesn't do much good to people who have a horrible sense of balance and are extremely prone to motion sickness. But to others there is something in Pork that stabilizes the Inner Ear which is our balance center.

Nobody knows why. But if it works, do it.

[gunnut]

Wow that's pretty weird.

Does bacon count? I don't like pork chops much. Can I take 8 strips of bacon in its place?