They're fast, but how well do they stop?

[RustyBattleship]

[quote=Dreadnought;353079] I have one question at what speed is this test performed at? and would it performed as a test if they were to take any of the four Iowa's to sea again?[quote]

I doubt it. As I recall the Proceedings article, the "barn door" stop was tested at full ahead (28 to 32 knots) and several times to boot. This would have been back in the 50's or 60's. Rudder repair was never looked for because the next time Wisky was put in dry dock was for decommissioning.

"Crash Back" stops are a regular item on sea trials and the ship often practices later while in service to keep the crew trained (to allow for crew rotations so nobody is out of practice).

The Mile and an eigth for Missouri's crash back was measured by GPS and announced over the 1 MC by the ship's Captain himself. Commercial GPS is accurate to within 300 feet (learned that back in '81 when on a cruise ship). Military GPS frequencies are --- well accurate enough to guide a cruise missile to pinwheel a target (so they tell me).

[RAL's_pal?]

Originally Posted by Dreadnought

Maybe just for certain classes of ship?

I guess someone would have to have access to where they're scrapping the Navy ships to find out if the reduction gears are there and what is done with them. The Belleau Wood was recently used as a target and I really doubt that two holes were cut in it's hull at the water line to remove the reduction gears. The reduction gears on the Belleau Wood are approximately twice the size of the Iowa class BB's. The first time I saw the turbine and reduction gear set up on the BB's I couldn't get over how small and "delicate" they looked. Maybe the Navy isn't very concerned about the reduction gears if they're sitting in a few hundred or thousand feet of water.

So cRusty, how is the search for the publisher going?

[Dreadnought]

[quote=RustyBattleship;353160][quote=Dreadnought;353079] I have one question at what speed is this test performed at? and would it performed as a test if they were to take any of the four Iowa's to sea again?

I doubt it. As I recall the Proceedings article, the "barn door" stop was tested at full ahead (28 to 32 knots) and several times to boot. This would have been back in the 50's or 60's. Rudder repair was never looked for because the next time Wisky was put in dry dock was for decommissioning.

"Crash Back" stops are a regular item on sea trials and the ship often practices later while in service to keep the crew trained (to allow for crew rotations so nobody is out of practice).

The Mile and an eigth for Missouri's crash back was measured by GPS and announced over the 1 MC by the ship's Captain himself. Commercial GPS is accurate to within 300 feet (learned that back in '81 when on a cruise ship). Military GPS frequencies are --- well accurate enough to guide a cruise missile to pinwheel a target (so they tell me).

I just recently learned that the propeller that is displayed at the entrace of the park leading to the NewJersey pier is one of Wiskey's 4 blade outboard props given to them by PNSY.

[SnowLeopard]

There is valuable and there is valuable.

The reduction gears tend to be valuable because they are the life of the ship, without them, the ship goes nowhere. But what makes them so valuable?

From my experience in merchant ships, they were so valuable because they were so hard to replace. They built the ship and then put the deck house over where the reduction gears were, so in order to replace them, one essentially was talking about scrapping the ship.

Now, maybe military ships are somewhat different in that category; the economics of ship use to scrap point is vastly interesting. But keep in mind that a prop shaft is not just a couple of pipes linked together. Here is a wonderful set up that is designed to push a several thousand ton vessel thru the water. The trick is how to set that up so the ship goes where it is suppose to .........

......... and all that force on the shaft doesn't drive that rod thru the hull of the ship.
------------------------------------------------
("I came over here to save her."--peeping tom boyfriend
"Some save,"--police detective as he watches the gurney with the fatally drilled body of the beautiful socialite leave, (w,stte), "Body Double")

[RAL's_pal?]

Originally Posted by Dreadnought

I just recently learned that the propeller that is displayed at the entrance of the park leading to the New Jersy pier is one of the Wiskey's 4 blade outboard props gien to them by PNSY.

In the mid 1990's I had some work in the prop storage yard on the Mole of the Long Beach Naval Station. They had new and refurbished props from "SS 201 class" to BB's. Most of them had wooden "dog houses" built over them for protection.

Eventually they were sold off as scrap brass and the contractor who won the bid simply hired a large portable band saw and a flat bed truck and cut up the larger props on site and hauled away the pieces. Ah yes, good times.

At that time you could also drive by the side of building 53 (or was it 55) and watch the welders cutting up the spare 16" barrels.

[RustyBattleship]

[quote=Dreadnought;354076][quote=RustyBattleship;353160]

Originally Posted by Dreadnought

I just recently learned that the propeller that is displayed at the entrace of the park leading to the NewJersey pier is one of Wiskey's 4 blade outboard props given to them by PNSY.

That doesn't mean Wisky has no propellers installed. You see, we had to replace all four propellers on all four ships when we reactivated them because bronze AGE HARDENS and chips real easy. So they were sent back somewhere for repair and RE-ANNEALING for the next ship. Since the propellers are all Essex class carrier props, there was plenty of them around. We had a whole set of all four propellers at the LBNS prop shop before the old ones were even taken off the Missouri. Which gave me the opportunity to write down their serial numbers and weights. One of the new props actually said "ESSEX CLASS" on it.

Don't ask me where the list is right now. It's in the bottom of some drawer somewhere in this house.

[Dreadnought]

[quote=RustyBattleship;354299][quote=Dreadnought;354076]

Originally Posted by RustyBattleship

That doesn't mean Wisky has no propellers installed. You see, we had to replace all four propellers on all four ships when we reactivated them because bronze AGE HARDENS and chips real easy. So they were sent back somewhere for repair and RE-ANNEALING for the next ship. Since the propellers are all Essex class carrier props, there was plenty of them around. We had a whole set of all four propellers at the LBNS prop shop before the old ones were even taken off the Missouri. Which gave me the opportunity to write down their serial numbers and weights. One of the new props actually said "ESSEX CLASS" on it.

Don't ask me where the list is right now. It's in the bottom of some drawer somewhere in this house.

Hey Mr. L.
Sorry, I didnt mean to be misleading. My meaning was that it was donated by the yard itself from spares it held there from the last time one was serviced. The Wisconsin as far as I know has all her props on her even at present.I have not read anywhere to the contrary. I did not realize that they were Essex class props at all. Hmm nothing like universal fits. There are large incased details of inboard and outboard on display pierside but they bare no information that they are interchangeable.Thanks.

[RAL's_pal?]

Originally Posted by Dreadnought

Hey Mr. L.
Sorry, I didnt mean to be misleading. My meaning was that it was donated by the yard itself from spares it held there from the last time one was serviced. The Wisconsin as far as I know has all her props on her even at present.I have not read anywhere to the contrary. I did not realize that they were Essex class props at all. Hmm nothing like universal fits. There are large incased details of inboard and outboard on display pierside but they bare no information that they are interchangeable.Thanks.

Sounds more like Rusty being cRusty......

[Dreadnought]

My bad should have rethought the wording.

[Dreadnought]

Just for kicks...Mo's fuel consumption.

Missouri's Fuel Consumption
The following table lists Missouri's speed in knots (Nautical Miles per hour) versus consumption of DFM (Distillate Fuel, Marine). A ship has a most economical speed which is the speed at which she travels most efficiently. For example, if the ship had to travel 1000 miles, there is a speed she could chose that would allow her to travel the 1000 miles burning the fewest gallons of fuel. You may think that 1 Knot would be most economical. To travel 1000 Nautical Miles, it would take Missouri 1000 hours, and she would have burned 813,000 gallons of fuel. At 10 Knots, the same 1000 Nautical Miles would take 100 hours and burn only 167,500 gallons of fuel.

Knots Gallons DFM/Hour
1 813
2 908
3 1004
4 1100
5 1196
6 1296
7 1388
8 1483
9 1580
10 1675
11 1771
12 1867
13 1963
14 2058
15 2145
16 2250
17 2771
18 3291
19 3813
20 4334
21 4854
22 5375
23 5896
24 6417
25 6937
26 7458
27 7979
28 8500
29 9021
30 9542
31 10,063
32 10,584

[Michigan_Guy]

Interesting how at 16 knots the fuel comsumption only goes up 105 gallons from going 15 knots, but from 16 knots to 17 knots it burns 521 gallons more. That's a difference of 416 gallons!

[Dreadnought]

All in the performance curve of the powerplant as well as sea conditions,hull fouling, light or heavy ship among several other things i imagine.

I would go so far as to guess there are many things that contribute to the effeciency of the vessel for this consideration.

[dundonrl]

I know it's not the same thing, but when I was stationed on the USS Essex LHD-2, we would do emergency crashbacks.. it would take quite awhile for her to slow down from flank speed and get up to full reverse speed.. (she has the same type of engines as the Iowas, in that she is steam powered as well) now mind you, the Essex only had 70,000 hp vice 212,000 hp and was 90% the weight, and only had 2 shafts vice 4..

the crashbacks on my current ship are fun.. and very quick, I think it's 60 seconds to go from 100% ahead pitch to the full reverse pitch, and we'll easily stop within our own length.. and will do about 15knots in reverse..

During "Charlie trials" on the Momsen, the shipyard would go from flank speed to full reverse literally dozens of times to make sure nothing would break.. and she held up just fine for all of that..

[RustyBattleship]

Originally Posted by dundonrl

I was stationed on the USS Essex LHD-2, we would do emergency crashbacks...now mind you, the Essex only had 70,000 hp vice 212,000 hp and was 90% the weight, and only had 2 shafts vice 4..

ARRGGH! And I thought I wasn't going to have nightmares tonight.

You also had a bunch of 4-rail cargo weapons elevators that couldn't go faster than JOG when she got out of Ingalls. It took a lot of us at LBNSY to straighten those rails out. BOY, did they need straightening. Especially the outboard ones. As you looked down from the top deck, they looked like sidewinders.

I wound up with ingrown toenails walking those decks, climbing up and down those monkey bars of staging we had and glad that my retirement was coming up in a couple of months in February of 1994.

I had to totally redesign the bumper rollers and finally we got elevator number 5 to working. That was the elevator we used in San Diego for the ship's Christmas party where Santa Clause stepped out with the elevator loaded with gifts and two of the crewmen's wives acting as elves. I think we had over 200 kids there and I only had about 2 hours for all of them to sit on my lap. Remember me leading crewmen (INCLUDING the Captain in "12 Days of Christmas?").

Elevator 2 was worrisome as it was going up one of the inspectors noticed that the eyebolt for the lift cable was unscrewing itself. EMERGENCY STOP!.

Elevator 3 ramp would never hinge down flush because the dimples to go over the hinges were not deep enough. The shipfitterl didn't know how to press them deeper and loaded up the deck with angle iron, hydraulic jacks, etc. I told him to get me a Buttonset. "Huh?" he said.

"A four pound single-handed sledge hammer and your welder with a number 5 scarfing tip."

We cut out the reinforcing web under the dimple and heated the whole thing straw yellow. Then I took the 4 lb button set and "blacksmithed" a deeper dimple. then welded it back up. Did that to all four dimples.

It was fun. I started at the shipyard in 1954 swinging a sledgehammer as a shipfitter apprentice and I finished the year of 1993 with a sledgehammer as a Naval Architect.

My favorite tool.

Oh yeah, that superior accomplishment award of a few G's put a smile back on my face too.

[dundonrl]

Oh yeah.. I remember that yard period, and remember you guys (LBNSY yard workers) working on those elevators. (cussing and *****ing them out as well) My current ship was built in Bath Maine, and we have some other guys on here that were on a sister ship of the Momsen (the Pinckney) that was built in Ingalls.. They said that the quality of work on the Bath built ship is MUCH better than the Ingalls ships, and I can believe it.

Remember you guys patching up the holes in the Ranger before she was pulled up to Bremerton, and one late evening, I walked down the side of that dry dock and walked under the Ranger.. DAMN that was impressive, seeing nothing but 60,000 tons of steel above me..

Thanks for the memories..


Rex