16" 50 cal projectiles

[Shipwreck]

Originally Posted by RustyBattleship

So far as I've heard, they are all personally funded and the only interest the Navy has in them is to make sure they can be recalled to active duty.

I seem to remember that both USS New Jersey and USS Missouri kept their cathodic protection, but did they also retain dehumidification in some non-public spaces ? What are these spaces (if any) ?

[TopHatter]

Originally Posted by Dreadnought

When we raise the guns it is done manually and it takes several hours to do using what we call "alot of ass

Dread, can you tell us more about raising the guns, on what occasions, what is the "normal" elevation and how is it determined etc?

Personally I think the battleships look their most majestic when the guns are at a relatively high - not neccessarily full - elevation.

[tlturbo]

Damn Tophatter, I see you are in FM. I lived there from 72 until 4 years ago.
Ever shoot at Cecil Webb?

Terry

[Michigan_Guy]

Are there even any useable 16" projectiles in existance anymore? Where would we even get more? And how about the bags of powder?

Also, I heard that the training mechanisms are welded up on a couple of the battleships including the Iowa. Is that true and is the damage they did by welding them up actually repairable?

BTW, did turret 2 on Iowa ever get repaired? Last I heard the parts for it were fixed but the turret was never "put back together". Just curious.

[RustyBattleship]

Originally Posted by Shipwreck

I seem to remember that both USS New Jersey and USS Missouri kept their cathodic protection, but did they also retain dehumidification in some non-public spaces ? What are these spaces (if any) ?

New Jersey did NOT receive her built in Impressed Current Cathodic Protection. Though I personally drew the plans (I was a faster draftsman than anyone else around) the Iowa got it first, then Missouri and finally Wisconsin. New Jersey was to get it at he next dry dock availability but a certain SecDef who swings an axe as well as he shoots his own hunting partners called for her decommissioning instead. So the only ICCP system the Big J has is the standard "hanging over the side" anodes as well as her own passive Zinc anodes above and below both bilge keels and on each side of the twin keels supporting shafts 2 & 3.

Dehumidification machines are still kept aboard the ships as there are many spaces visitors will not go in and the air must be kept dry. In mothballs with no visitors there are 9 D/H machines on board. Modifying the ship for visitors requires one or two to be relocated and another two to three put in storage (for spares later). So at least 6 are still kept active for non-visitor areas such as void spaces, storerooms, unopened machinery rooms, powder magazines, turrets and secondary mounts.

Remember, once you break a D/H seal for inspections, lookie-loos or re-up ceremonies it takes 48 to 72 hours to bring the humidity back down again.

[RustyBattleship]

Originally Posted by Michigan_Guy

Are there even any useable 16" projectiles in existance anymore? Where would we even get more? And how about the bags of powder?

Also, I heard that the training mechanisms are welded up on a couple of the battleships including the Iowa. Is that true and is the damage they did by welding them up actually repairable?

BTW, did turret 2 on Iowa ever get repaired? Last I heard the parts for it were fixed but the turret was never "put back together". Just curious.

I can answer all of your questions. But at this time with the Iowa up for grabs it is better to let this pass by for now. Sorry, though I'm retired I still respect the old term, "Loose Lips Sink Ships".

[RustyBattleship]

Originally Posted by TopHatter

Dread, can you tell us more about raising the guns, on what occasions, what is the "normal" elevation and how is it determined etc?

Personally I think the battleships look their most majestic when the guns are at a relatively high - not neccessarily full - elevation.

The guns are normally raised about a 30 degree angle for show purposes and for open houses so too many people don't climb on the barrels and fall off.

In their "at sea" position they are locked down at 0 degrees. Load position (officially called Battery position) is 3 degrees up angle for loading projectiles and powder bags.

The guns can elevate a full 45 degrees but engineers in WW II decided to restrict them to 42 degrees after reviewing the flattening of rollers on the Texas at Normandy. A 45 degree angle was obtained by Missouri however in Korea by flooding the trim tanks and settling down on a sand bar to gain at least a 3 degree list.

Not too many people agree with me on that because they haven't read it in any book. But the NAVORD reps I worked with and a couple of Chief GM's confirmed that.

It's not highly advertised because they do not want to try to make that an optional procedure. Besides, if you miss-judge the tide when you settle down, you may REALLY be settled down.

[RAL's_pal?]

Originally Posted by RustyBattleship

I can answer all of your questions. But at this time with the Iowa up for grabs it is better to let this pass by for now.

Aw, come on, answer all the questions.... we won't tell

Maybe if we take up a collection to buy you a few rounds of Vodka, or have you given that stuff up also?

[RustyBattleship]

Originally Posted by RAL's_pal?

Aw, come on, answer all the questions.... we won't tell

Maybe if we take up a collection to buy you a few rounds of Vodka, or have you given that stuff up also?

ME? GIVE UP VODKA? My Cossack grandfather would turn over in his grave. But then I could go to Whisky to satisfy my Irish grandfather.

All I'll say is that some welding was done on one of the ships in the turrets. But we were promised by INACTSHIP Bremerton is was easily repairable. it was so minor even our inspection of it in 1997 couldn't find any out of place welds (my inspector at that time was a Navy Chief still active and I got his Captain in San Diego to join our team).

[Dreadnought]

Originally Posted by TopHatter

Dread, can you tell us more about raising the guns, on what occasions, what is the "normal" elevation and how is it determined etc?

Personally I think the battleships look their most majestic when the guns are at a relatively high - not neccessarily full - elevation.

Hey TH,

The guns are raised manually. We use a chain hoist and pipe wrenchs to turn a particular nut that (you can only get a half-three quarters grip on) i believe in a series of half turns spins a wormgear reduction so many turns. I have not been able to view the entire actual assembly but I would assume to to be worm gear reduction. Judging by how many turns it takes to give one degree in elevation this is where I assume it is a reduction assemby. But as we could imagine it must be a high degree of reduction There is a rifle elevation gauge/read out located against the forward bulkhead of the gun pit however on the gun house side of the bulkhead down low at about ankle level which tell us the degree of angle. It is located almost directly below the FPS valve group and the "Christmas tree" lights. This gauge works both in a "manual" and auto sense. In other words the readout works for both ways of raising the guns. We raise the guns basically for ceremony and display reasons unless ofcoarse the man in charge wishes us to raise or lower them at his descretion.

In older USN days im not so sure about these days from what I was told, normally when a U.S. battleship entered port a 30-35 degree elevation of the guns told the owners of said port/country of the ships intentions 30-35 degree (port call or friendly call. no hostility intended).

If she came in with the rifles anywhere between 0-10 degrees in elevation chances are there was going to be trouble or they were expecting there was to be trouble. 5 degrees was the automatic return elevation for the rifles after discharge (because the bore was aligned with the cradle tray at 5 degrees of elevation when the cradle lays horizontaly.) This would facilitate fast reloading of the guns in the case of any conflict.

I would certainly agree with Mr. L though as far as being in the down position during normal sailing conditions. It makes good sense. Less strain on the rifle mount/barrels from bobing up and down the waves and less strain on the machinery/hydraulics/gearing etc holding them at their postions.

I will try to get a good picture of the mechanism to post.

Other sources reported that when they came into questionable ports or anchorage atleast one pair (port/starboard) of the 5/38's were on stand by just in case.

We have been keeping them at approx 30-35 degrees as of lately (actually since summmer 2006)

It also makes for good pictures for people "under" the guns when viewed from the foc'sul looking aft at the superstructure.

[tlturbo]

I have a pretty technical question on the 16" 50cal HC projectile.

On the HC projectile, if it has a nose fuse (or a steel nose cap) screwed into the adapter, when the protective nose cover is removed, are the protective nose cover threads on the adapter left exposed? It would appear that this would disrupt the smooth taper from the point down onto the shell. I just can't figure out how it all fits together and keeps things smooth. Is the protective cover taken off and then the nose fuse installed? That doesn't really make sense. But if the fuse is installed and then the cover installed over it, how are the threads covered when the cover is taken off.

And NO, I can't repeat that question because I have totally confused myself HA

Thanks for any help (picture of a real shell nose would be of great help)
Terry

[Dreadnought]

Originally Posted by tlturbo

I have a pretty technical question on the 16" 50cal HC projectile.

On the HC projectile, if it has a nose fuse (or a steel nose cap) screwed into the adapter, when the protective nose cover is removed, are the protective nose cover threads on the adapter left exposed? It would appear that this would disrupt the smooth taper from the point down onto the shell. I just can't figure out how it all fits together and keeps things smooth. Is the protective cover taken off and then the nose fuse installed? That doesn't really make sense. But if the fuse is installed and then the cover installed over it, how are the threads covered when the cover is taken off.

And NO, I can't repeat that question because I have totally confused myself HA

Thanks for any help (picture of a real shell nose would be of great help)
Terry

This link may assist you in your answer...bottom of page
USA 16"/50 (40.6 cm) Mark 7

I can ask a gentlemen that I work with about your question. He is about the very best source I can come up with. He served as gun captain two different times and as "primer" man once on the Iowa class. This may take a few days though to get an answer from him since we work two different shifts.

[tlturbo]

UPDATE:
I got the base plug out of the projectile AFTER I finally realized that it was reverse threaded so it wouldn't unscrew under the spin from the rifling. I also got out the little dummy plug that was in the base fuze hole. Also got the nose adapter (big heavy piece that screws into the actual projectile nose) to screw all the way into the shell.

NOW I am stuck with the fuze problem. Is there anyone on here that has hands on knowledge of Point Detonating Fuzes (PDF) on the 16".

I need to know what Mark fuses (MK29 for instance was one) that were used. And the major issue is that ALL fuses I come across (MK18) have a 1 1/2" threaded stem. The threaded fuze hole in the heavy adapter in the nose of the shell is 2". Was an adapter ring (like a donut with threads inside and outside) needed to make the smaller fuze stem (1 1/2") fit into the nose hole (2"). This is driving me nuts trying to figure out just WHAT fuzes were used in the nose of this.

Many thanks for all the help people have given so far. I figure someone on here has to have messed with these things.
Terry

[Dreadnought]

Sorry T,
I havent seen him or heard from him lately. I'm hoping his health is holding out. But I'm certain he will get back to me.

[tlturbo]

Hey D,
No problem at all. I knew if he had talked to you, you'd let me know.
I'm just antsy HA and want to get going and I figured with all the people on this board, one of them had to have been in a turret.
I can't believe I can't find a copy of OP 1664 anywhere. Online, e-bay, etc. All I have found out for sure is the MK29 was used but I need to know what others were also used as MK29's don't seem to exist to buy anywhere.

Take care - Terry