SuperBattleShip- ( Leviathan Class )

[Jay]

Colonel,
But whats the possibility of a boat/dingy/fast attak boat reaching the BB ?

[Officer of Engineers]

I was actually thinking of a sub.

[EclipsetheRuin]

If the ship had a battlefleet with it, subs couldnt even get near it. And if a dingy or rubber raft approached, the bb would shoot it right out of the water.

[Praxus]

One word - kamakazie

I'm sure if China for example sent every sub they had at her they could probley damage her enough to take her out of the fight. The question is would they be willing to send all thoose subs to attack a single ship? Would it not be better to haras the entire US fleet and slow them down?

The BB carries 4 ASW helicopters, it's escorts would carry perhaps a half dozen more.

So now you have a force that can deliver a vast ammount more firepower then a Carrier Battlegroup that cost a lot less.

well, China has some of those advanced missiles that Russia has, Moskit, Sunburn to name a few.

Just think about this. The SM-2's would have to miss, then the ESSM would have to miss, then the RAM would have to miss, and then it would have to hit the superstructure just to disable it temporarily.

[Jay]

Well, a salvo of variety of AShM missiles and topedoes from a kamakazee sub may very well disable the BB, if not sink it. Remember, size and distance of missile war heads have changed a lot.

[Praxus]

A.) How will the subs get within range of the BB where it can fire the salvo?

B.) How can the missiles get past all of it's escorts and it's own air defenses?

C.) How would the sub find it in the first place when the ship is in excess of 75nm off shore during the opening of a conflict?

[Officer of Engineers]

Originally Posted by Praxus

A.) How will the subs get within range of the BB where it can fire the salvo?

A revival of the wolf pack tactic would do that very nicely. The problem with the wolf pact is that casualty rate was intolerably high. However, if you're expecting 100% casualties ... you can conceivably use recee-by-death.

Originally Posted by Praxus

B.) How can the missiles get past all of it's escorts and it's own air defenses?

Same way the Bears and Badgers were expecting to do this, by sheer saturation.

Originally Posted by Praxus

C.) How would the sub find it in the first place when the ship is in excess of 75nm off shore during the opening of a conflict?

Recee-by-death. As soon as a sub stops talking, you know it's been killed by something very nasty.

[Officer of Engineers]

Originally Posted by Praxus

So now you have a force that can deliver a vast ammount more firepower then a Carrier Battlegroup that cost a lot less.

Four words - Danger Close Fire Support.

[Praxus]

Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers

A revival of the wolf pack tactic would do that very nicely. The problem with the wolf pact is that casualty rate was intolerably high. However, if you're expecting 100% casualties ... you can conceivably use recee-by-death.



Same way the Bears and Badgers were expecting to do this, by sheer saturation.



Recee-by-death. As soon as a sub stops talking, you know it's been killed by something very nasty.

Ok so they disable the Battleship. Now what? They lost the vast majority of their subs and there is still another BB (or several if we built new upgraded Montanas) steaming to China not to mention several Carrier Battle Groups.


BBG-67 Montana Class Battleships:

Displacement: 60,500 tons (standard); 70,965 tons (full load)

Dimensions: 921' 3" (length overall); 121' 2" (maximum beam)

Powerplant: 172,000 horsepower steam turbines, producing a 28 knot maximum speed

Armament (Main Battery): Twelve 16"/50 guns in four triple turrets

Armament (Secondary Battery): Twenty 5"/54 guns in ten twin mountings (ten guns on each side of the ship)

Now of course it would be built with a cheaper power plant, VLS Cells, Aegis System, ESSM, and all thoose other goodies in the modern Navy.

[EclipsetheRuin]

Think if the Leviathan was produced, in conjunction with the montana class. Hell for the enemy

[Officer of Engineers]

Originally Posted by Praxus

Ok so they disable the Battleship. Now what? They lost the vast majority of their subs and there is still another BB (or several if we built new upgraded Montanas) steaming to China not to mention several Carrier Battle Groups.

One question at a time. Your original question was how could this be done. I gave you a very plausible scenario based upon what the Chinese have themselves said thus far.

Now,

The Chinese never had a hope to defeat the US. What they want to do is get their things on Taiwan done fast before the US could really react. The longer they delay that reaction, the better chances the ground action would be decided in their favour.

If they destroy a single CVBG or a BBBG (or cripple them), then they bought time, maybe even a matter of hours as the USN struggles to plug the holes in their deployment schema.

2nd, you're talking about a military who gave you "In the end, you care more for LA than Taipei." which has been twisted into "Would you trade LA for Taipei?" Would you trade a BB for the Kinmen Garrison?

Originally Posted by Praxus

Now of course it would be built with a cheaper power plant, VLS Cells, Aegis System, ESSM, and all thoose other goodies in the modern Navy.

Danger Close Fire Support or the lack of it.

[Fury]

A ship of that size ( its like 700 meters ) could indeed storage a lot of ordnance but its also a big target and not to mention a huge place to go walking around, there would have to be internal transports for repair crews if such personnel is used nowdays and if the ship takes hefty damage it would quickly suffer from communication paralyzis assuming the comms are damaged.

[Garry]

Originally Posted by Praxus

A.) How will the subs get within range of the BB where it can fire the salvo?

B.) How can the missiles get past all of it's escorts and it's own air defenses?

C.) How would the sub find it in the first place when the ship is in excess of 75nm off shore during the opening of a conflict?

500km is good for Granit salvo. China is awaiting for a diesel sub from Russian company OMZ (United Heavy Machinery) which will be able to Salvo 6 Granit missiles.... OK lets assume that one is not enough and escort will defend from Salvo of 6 Granit...

This diesel Sub is $90mln price + 6 granit would cost them around $10mln.... it makes 100mln. Put few more and carrier worth 3-4bn is gone....

So far none of the countries in the can not afford spending enough to be a threat, but the point is that if somebody seriously decides to challange carriers it would be far cheaper to create effective means against carrier that building and protecting carrier...

actually if we put a kamikadze sub in play then things get much easier...

[Praxus]

That's an argument against Aircraft Carriers not Battleships.

[Garry]

Originally Posted by Praxus

That's an argument against Aircraft Carriers not Battleships.

no that is argument against large, slow and VERY expensive targets..... including battleships