Mk. 52 and Mk. 53 rangefinders

[Defcon 6]

What was the actual range of these devices on the Iowa's?

I know it's 45,000 yards, but that isn't that actual range right because it doesn't take into consideration the distance to horizon? So how far can they actually see?

[Dreadnought]

Originally Posted by Defcon 6

What was the actual range of these devices on the Iowa's?

I know it's 45,000 yards, but that isn't that actual range right because it doesn't take into consideration the distance to horizon? So how far can they actually see?

Defcon I have alot of info on their range finders I have to find it but I will post for you if somebody dont beat me to it.

[RustyBattleship]

Originally Posted by Defcon 6

What was the actual range of these devices on the Iowa's?

I know it's 45,000 yards, but that isn't that actual range right because it doesn't take into consideration the distance to horizon? So how far can they actually see?

Though Dreadnought probably has the right manuals on those directors, they could probably "see" 40 to 45,000 yards. A 6-foot tall man standing erect can see 15 miles (abt 27,000 yards) to the horizon (on perfectly flat ground). But the higher you get, the further out you can see. Those directors are pretty high up.

I recall, years ago when the air was cleaner in LA, sitting on a bluff of the Palos Verdes Penninsula about 200 feet above sea level and clearly seeing the city of Avalon on Catalina Island 26 miles away and even the horizon of the ocean beyond the island.

[RAL's_pal?]

Originally Posted by RustyBattleship

I recall, years ago when the air was cleaner in LA, sitting on a bluff of the Palos Verdes Penninsula about 200 feet above sea level and clearly seeing the city of Avalon on Catalina Island 26 miles away and even the horizon of the ocean beyond the island.

Maybe it wasn't the air, your eyes were probably better way back then. Was the Dominator there at the time you were on the cliff?
I see the LBNSY board is back in service.....

[RustyBattleship]

Originally Posted by RAL's_pal?

Maybe it wasn't the air, your eyes were probably better way back then. Was the Dominator there at the time you were on the cliff?
I see the LBNSY board is back in service.....

No, the Dominator hadn't made its grounding yet. But even after it did, the air was still clearer and we could see Catalina. If we went to the top of San Pedro Hill, 1500 foot elevation before the RADAR domes were built, we could just barely make out San Clemente Island.

I'm glad the board is back in service. Just saw an obit in the paper of another ex-yardbird dieing. So I'll post that info.

[RAL's_pal?]

Originally Posted by RustyBattleship

No, the Dominator hadn't made its grounding yet. But even after it did, the air was still clearer and we could see Catalina. If we went to the top of San Pedro Hill, 1500 foot elevation before the RADAR domes were built, we could just barely make out San Clemente Island.

I'm glad the board is back in service. Just saw an obit in the paper of another ex-yardbird dieing. So I'll post that info.

The reason I used the Dominator was to date the time you were up there, and it was a VERY long time ago.... Dominator grounded in March 1961, you were still in your 20's (like that was possible..)

[Defcon 6]

Originally Posted by RustyBattleship

Though Dreadnought probably has the right manuals on those directors, they could probably "see" 40 to 45,000 yards. A 6-foot tall man standing erect can see 15 miles (abt 27,000 yards) to the horizon (on perfectly flat ground). But the higher you get, the further out you can see. Those directors are pretty high up.

I recall, years ago when the air was cleaner in LA, sitting on a bluff of the Palos Verdes Penninsula about 200 feet above sea level and clearly seeing the city of Avalon on Catalina Island 26 miles away and even the horizon of the ocean beyond the island.

Finally!

I was on another forum and I was talking about an engagement between 40k to 45,000 k. Aside from the fact that the Iowa would have trouble hitting anything at that range, I still argued that the rangefinders could in fact see out that far in the very least. Because I devised an L60 gun that had a range of 47,000 yards. So thats where the entire arguement came from.

I knew I wasn't totally stupid tho. Thanks for the information.

[Defcon 6]

Originally Posted by Dreadnought

Defcon I have alot of info on their range finders I have to find it but I will post for you if somebody dont beat me to it.

hehe. someone beat ya to it.

i wonder how accurate the guns would be at that range? it'd have to be less than 1% (out of 100) probability of hitting a target the size of an Iowa.

[Dreadnought]

In a nut shell...YES...lol

[Dreadnought]

Originally Posted by Defcon 6

hehe. someone beat ya to it.

i wonder how accurate the guns would be at that range? it'd have to be less than 1% (out of 100) probability of hitting a target the size of an Iowa.

Ahh but anything is possible even at long range. You can still "walk on" to target. That is if you have the time. Maybe skill, Maybe luck but even luck counts when it destroys what you are aiming for. Just look at some of the longest shots the battleships made during WWII.

[IDonT]

Originally Posted by Dreadnought

Ahh but anything is possible even at long range. You can still "walk on" to target. That is if you have the time. Maybe skill, Maybe luck but even luck counts when it destroys what you are aiming for. Just look at some of the longest shots the battleships made during WWII.

Yeah that typically how that works. The range finder dictates the range, which dictates the elevation of the barrels. A ranging shot (usually colored to determine which ship fired it) is fired to see if it is short or long. The barrel elevation is adjusted until the ship is "straddled" - shell splashes fall both long and short indicating that elevation range to where the target ship is. Once actual range is found, then you fire a full broadside.

In battle, the enemy who can first find the range usually have a great advantage.

[Shipwreck]

Originally Posted by IDonT

A ranging shot (usually colored to determine which ship fired it) is fired to see if it is short or long.

For a given USN BB during WW2, either all AP bullets had a colored dye, or none had it.

E.g. :
* USS South Dakota (BB-57) = Blue
* USS Alabama (BB-60) = No dye (= White)

HC didn't have dye bags.

[RustyBattleship]

Originally Posted by Shipwreck

For a given USN BB during WW2, either all AP bullets had a colored dye, or none had it.

E.g. :
* USS South Dakota (BB-57) = Blue
* USS Alabama (BB-60) = No dye (= White)

HC didn't have dye bags.

When we did a full range of test firing of the main batteries on New Jersey back in 82, the Dahlgren people used colored dies for the separate turrets to tell how accurate each one was.

The tow target was quite visible to the naked eye so impacts were very eye appealing. VERY eye appealing as they used Orange for Turret I, Yellow for Turret II and Green for Turret III.

However, it was a rather hazy day and the haze filtered OUT the Yellow.

So when a full salvo was fired, all you could see were columns of RED, WHITE and BLUE water.

[Dreadnought]

Originally Posted by RustyBattleship

When we did a full range of test firing of the main batteries on New Jersey back in 82, the Dahlgren people used colored dies for the separate turrets to tell how accurate each one was.

The tow target was quite visible to the naked eye so impacts were very eye appealing. VERY eye appealing as they used Orange for Turret I, Yellow for Turret II and Green for Turret III.

However, it was a rather hazy day and the haze filtered OUT the Yellow.

So when a full salvo was fired, all you could see were columns of RED, WHITE and BLUE water.

And what great colors they are!

[Shipwreck]

Originally Posted by RustyBattleship

The tow target was quite visible to the naked eye so impacts were very eye appealing. VERY eye appealing as they used Orange for Turret I, Yellow for Turret II and Green for Turret III.

During WW2, USN 16" BBs were assigned the following dye colors (AP bullets only) :

USS Colorado (BB-45) = ORANGE
USS Maryland (BB-46) = BLUE
USS West Virginia (BB-48) = NO DYE (= WHITE)

USS North Carolina (BB-55) = GREEN
USS Washington (BB-56) = ORANGE
USS South Dakota (BB-57) = BLUE
USS Indiana (BB-58) = RED
USS Massachusetts (BB-59) = GREEN
USS Alabama (BB-60) = NO DYE (= WHITE)

USS Iowa (BB-61) = ORANGE
USS New Jersey (BB-62) = BLUE
USS Missouri (BB-63) = RED
USS Wisconsin (BB-64) = GREEN