Iowa hull life. How much left?

[TopHatter]

Originally Posted by RAL's_pal?

Now, back to Vegas for a few days....

Circus Circus?

[Blademaster]

Originally Posted by M21Sniper

Add him to the list with the F-14 and BBs then.

I hate Dick.

D.Cheyney's new motto: "See Dick.....RUN!!!!"

Don't forget that he sold the toolings for making the B-1Bs parts. Now the B-1B crews can't order parts. They must salvage the reserves or designate an active B-1 Bomber as the spare parts plane and they will gut it out for spare parts. Really dumb.

[TillerNOS]

Originally Posted by Blademaster

Don't forget that he sold the toolings for making the B-1Bs parts. Now the B-1B crews can't order parts. They must salvage the reserves or designate an active B-1 Bomber as the spare parts plane and they will gut it out for spare parts. Really dumb.

That really pisses me off! I am a Republican, but when I sit through endless briefings telling me how F*'ed up things are, and I am a die hard TOMCAT guy, and now the CSG's are sitting ducks from 200 nm's out..I had no idea about the Lancer's issue....damn.

[Dreadnought]

Originally Posted by RustyBattleship

Sorry if I sounded on edge there, but I was. You would be SHOCKED to know how many so-called "experts" there are out there that have never even SEEN a ship. I base this on a model ship and hobby show I went to a few days after New Jersey deployed. A friend of mine (who also worked for me at the shipyard as a draftsman) was in charge of one of the tables selling fiberglass hulls he makes (of everything from U-Boats to Nimitz class carriers). At a table nearby was a modified Revell model of the New Jersey. The base model for it was done by Loren Perry in my friend's shop with both us dropping a hint or two to Loren as to what she really would look like.

Some loudmouthed "expert" (I think he was a judge also), was criticizing the model as not having the canted ski-jump flight deck that he claimed was installed. Of course he was basing his expertise on a photo he saw of a highly modified Sterling model made of balsa wood and cardboard. The last I saw of that model it was gathering dust at the dark end of a damp hallway in the Pentagon.

Naturally, my friend and I had to say something like, "That's interesting. We were the structural designers on the ship and when we saw her last week that flight deck hadn't been built yet." So much for THAT judge.

As for the boilers, they are, in fact, Babcock and Wilcox boilers. It is true you do not HAVE to run all 8 at the same time or at full pressure at the same time. This is technically true of any multi-boilered ship. But by necessity the Iowas had all 8 boilers on hot iron all the time except when tied up to a pier. Even in a slow cruise speed you have to run at least four to keep either the outboard propellers (numbers 1 & 4) turning or the inboard propellers (numbers 2 & 3) for proper rudder control. The exception is when a private shipyard reactivated one of the Iowas and screwed up the boilers so bad she barely limped back home on one screw.

But even under harbor exit, ALL 8 boilers are on hot iron and ready to go at any time. They have to be to provide the steam for the turbine powered generators and the heating systems throughout the ship. A lot of the electrical drain from the turbo-generators was for the seven new 125 ton air conditioning plants we put in them (plus a lot of deck mounted fan coil units). More electrical drain was for all the new Gee-Whiz black boxes, radar, radio, code machines, and closed circuit TV. We had to take over an entire berthing compartment just for the new radio comm space on main deck. We had to take over the Admiral's quarters on 02 level just for the new Combat Engagement Center and Spook Room. (I had to design the armor for all those spaces). Then there were the power requirements for the new missile installations and their support equipment. As every proposed Shipalt was reviewed, the first question asked was whether or not we had enough electrical reserve power to operate the new equipment. Of course, we did but to make sure we had all 8 boilers up and running with the forward and aft Emergency Diesel Generator rooms manned and ready to hit the ignition switch.

In one case we had a problem with getting enough Low Pressure air to operate some air hoists above 05 level. The hoists were for missile reloading. Then one of our piping techs (Danny Rios) had and astounding idea. We used the Medium Pressure air compressor and orificed it down to LP. The MP compressor was ONLY used to clear the smoke out of the barrels of the 16-inch guns when they fired. It was very doubtful that we would be firing those guns during a Tomahawk or Harpoon loadout, so it was the ideal solution as opposed to installing another LP air compressor higher up on the ship and providing electrical power to it.

However, with Battleships (as well as the older Aircraft Carriers) running with all boilers on hot iron had become almost SOP. The Nukies are something else I guess and I never got too involved with them except for some mast modifications.

Even on a one day family day cruise the New Jersey turned all four shafts. I know because I wound up as a ship's guide and took my family and friends down into the engine rooms to show them the shafts turning. However, I think she did cut down to only two shafts for the gun firing demonstrations.

The ONLY time I felt Missouri sort of lagging along was when we were coming in from a sea trial. Normally only the inboard or outboard screws were engaged but this time ONLY the port screws were used. And even then I think only one of them. The reason was that as we were approaching the Long Beach Breakwater, a pod of California Gray Whales was exiting along our Starboard side. So Captain Kais shut down the starboard screws so as not to drag one of the baby whales into it (the 18-foot diameter propeller wouldn't be damaged but the whale would be in very sorry shape). Steerage was pretty hard for the rudders so approach to the harbor was real slow. However, it gave a good chance for us to stand along the Starboard rails and look DOWN onto the whales that couldn't have been more than 30 feet from the ship.

So there. Yes, I have calmed down a bit after Allstate quickly replaced the broken window on my truck. And I'm back on my Coreg as well. I had forgotten to take it the other day.

Happy to report Mr. L that I reported aboard New Jersey last tues night and will for the next ten weeks of training.

[Dreadnought]

From what rumor has it Mr.L New Jersey can steam fourteen (14) feet on one gallon of fuel but that is after her boilers have been on hot iron for two days. Ever heard anything along those lines?

[RustyBattleship]

Originally Posted by Dreadnought

From what rumor has it Mr.L New Jersey can steam fourteen (14) feet on one gallon of fuel but that is after her boilers have been on hot iron for two days. Ever heard anything along those lines?

That two day heating up period is stretching it way too far. The fact is you can go from dead cold iron to all eight on hot iron in about two hours per boiler. But there are enough black gang on board to bring up all eight boilers in that two hours.

Except before 1981 and how cold the water was in the harbor. You often had to run auxiliary steam through the fuel tanks of Number 2 bunker "tar" to get it viscuous enough to pump into the main feeds. THAT might take two days if you were in Brooklyn in January. The new Navy Distillate (a.k.a. Diesel Fuel Marine or DFM) doesn't require pre-heat time and we ripped all of the steam piping out of the fuel tanks as it was no longer needed.

As for fuel consumption, that 14 feet on one gallon seems a wee short. It may be true while getting up to speed and once at speed allowing momentum to help you along. And again, what kind of fuel are they talking about?

I read what the average fuel consumption was (may even have some specs on it buried in this back room of piles of books and file cabinets) but have forgotten. The only spec I know is an Iowa can put out 240,000 horsepower with the pedal to the metal. What the shaft rpm is at that Flank speed is I'm not sure as during sea trials were were only allowed to go Full speed at 200 to 210 rpm per shaft. But that still hit 32 knots+ and put up a rooster tail.

Val Pena, the supervisor of our machinery design section, was on board and ticked off as he wanted to bring the shafts up to 220, or even 230 and break the 33 or 34 knot records. He said we had plenty of steam pressure left and all the shaft and turbine bearings were running nice and cool.

Oh, on that 14 feet per gallon? A friend of mine was building up a hot rod some years ago in his back yard. He put a gallon of gas in it and used a cup of gas in the carb to start the engine up. But by the time he got to the end of his 40 foot long driveway he was out of gas again.

[Shipwreck]

Originally Posted by Dreadnought

From what rumor has it Mr.L New Jersey can steam fourteen (14) feet on one gallon of fuel but that is after her boilers have been on hot iron for two days. Ever heard anything along those lines?

Here is a chance to practice your maths, young Jedi :

X = Speed (knots)
Y = Fuel consumption (DFM, gallons/hour)

For X = [1;16] : Y ~ 95.6 * X + 720

For X = [16;33] : Y ~ 520.6 * X - 6,075

Should you need more accurate figures, just ask your favorite curator for the Engineering Plant Heat Balance and Flow Diagrams for BB-62.

Of course, the equations above assume (among others) the engineering plant not being FUBAR, but that's another story...

[Anon]

Originally Posted by Shipwreck

Here is a chance to practice your maths, young Jedi :

X = Speed (knots)
Y = Fuel consumption (DFM, gallons/hour)

For X = [1;16] : Y ~ 95.6 * X + 720

For X = [16;33] : Y ~ 520.6 * X - 6,075

Should you need more accurate figures, just ask your favorite curator for the Engineering Plant Heat Balance and Flow Diagrams for BB-62.

Of course, the equations above assume (among others) the engineering plant not being FUBAR, but that's another story...

Did this guy ever reveal his identity to the board? (I havnt been around much lately).

[Dreadnought]

I had the distinct pleasure last night while aboard to closely inspect and touch "One Able One" and its back up "One Able Two" as well as "Sky One " Sky Two" and "Sky Three" For those of you that are familiar with those terms all I can say is remarkable.

[Shipwreck]

Originally Posted by M21Sniper

How much servicable hull/boiler life does each of the Iowas have left?

Here is a quote from a January 2000 Op. Ed. in Proceedings authored by the legendary Larry Seaquist :

"Thanks to their high-quality construction, we could continue to enjoy another decade of service from the two ships, IOWA and WISCONSIN, still being kept ready for reactivation."

[Anon]

Originally Posted by Shipwreck

Here is a quote from a January 2000 Op. Ed. in Proceedings authored by the legendary Larry Seaquist :

"Thanks to their high-quality construction, we could continue to enjoy another decade of service from the two ships, IOWA and WISCONSIN, still being kept ready for reactivation."

That doesn't say much without more clarification.

A decade under sparing use, or under full out wartime conditions?

I have vague statements...

[RustyBattleship]

Originally Posted by M21Sniper

That doesn't say much without more clarification.

A decade under sparing use, or under full out wartime conditions?

I have vague statements...

When we reactivated the ships in the 1980's plans were also made for WIP (Warfighting Improvement Program) and SHLEP (Ship Hull Life Extension Program). The reactivations already started the first part of SHLEP with the conversion over from bunker oil to Navy Distillate as fuel. Part of WIP was also started with the additions of armored areas for communications and command.

But as time went on, plans were drawn to support 96 VLS (without removing any main batteries) and hull life extension shipalts were being written (I wrote one of them myself on the Impressed Current Cathodic Protection System which was installed on three of the ships).

With those programs in mind, the maximum life of the ships, WITHOUT DEACTIVATION in between, would have extended their FULLY ACTIVE service until 2010.

[TopHatter]

Originally Posted by RustyBattleship

But as time went on, plans were drawn to support 96 VLS (without removing any main batteries)

That would have required/facilitated removal of all Tomahawk and Harpoon launchers and most of the 5-inch battery, correct?

[Shipwreck]

Originally Posted by M21Sniper

That doesn't say much without more clarification.

A decade under sparing use, or under full out wartime conditions?

Since :

1. there is no such thing as *sparing use* in the US Navy warship status categories

2. Larry Seaquist advocates the reactivation of USS Iowa and USS Wisconsin in his Op. Ed.

The *additional decade of service* obviously refers to both ships having a status "Active, In Commission".

IOW, what Larry Seaquist says in his Op. Ed. is that the USS Wisconsin and USS Iowa have a remaining service life of 10 years.

Even though he's not part of the *WAB expert panel* , Larry Seaquist has already forgotten more about his ship (USS Iowa) than anyone on this board will ever know.

The smart money is therefore definitely on Larry Seaquist as far as USS Iowa's remaining service life of 10 years is concerned.

[Shipwreck]

Originally Posted by TopHatter

That would have required/facilitated removal of all Tomahawk and Harpoon launchers and most of the 5-inch battery, correct?

According to the drawings being circulated here and there on the net (presumably based on a set of plans made for NAVSEA by JJMA IIRC), all Tomahawks box launchers would be removed, but the Harpoons would be retained together with 4 x 5" mounts.

Regarding the 5" mounts, the drawings being circulated show Mounts 53, 54, 57 and 58 retained, with their guns replaced with 5"/54 instead of the existing 5"/38 (which doesn't make sense). Mounts 51 & 52 seem to have been replaced by a pair of single 40mm autocannon of an unknown type (which doesn't make sense either).

I'll have to check on my copy of the original plans whether this strange arrangement was part of the JJMA(?) design or added by whoever at a later stage.

My opinion (from day one) is that neither the original plans by JJMA(?) nor the drawings they have inspired actually hold water, but this is another story...