BB trivia

[RustyBattleship]

Originally Posted by Gun Grape

Sir,I have no doubt that you know your Iowas. But on this you are wrong. The only people that had RPVs in Beirut were the IDF.

.

It is true that the Israeli Defense Force "owned" the RPVs. But after New Jersey came back to the states some of the crewmen reported that their recon (and some helo air support) was provided by the Guam that used both helos and RPVs for their photo recon. Though New Jersey had her own helo deck, it was usually kept pretty clear in case turret III had to suddenly come into play. Perhaps the RPVs were only being tested off the Guam and not part of regular ops, but such testing would be a logical step towards permanent installation. Actually my most trusted source of info is from a friend who was a GM on New Jersey at the time.

But just for conversation, sometimes the old is better than the new. When New Jersey returned to Long Beach I was in conference with Captain Mulligan along with a rep from the Naval Weapons Handling Center in Colt's Neck, New Jersey. Somehow a mention was made of some of the off the wall ideas we had such as mounting 40mm guns on the ship. Captain Mulligan SERIOUSLY said, "I wish I had a couple of them in Beirut." They were constantly on the lookout for suicide planes and suicide boats. When we started designing RPV installations, I was tasked to design armor plate around the jettisonable sled that held the 600 gallon fuel bladder of Mogas that the RPV used.

Ah. Those were the days when the only arguments were whether my armor design was better or worse than what Norfolk came up with. Naturally, mine was better because I always designed for .50 caliber ball, not 7.65 AK.

[TopHatter]

Originally Posted by Dreadnought

Yamato is my guess. She was the most modern and the flagship of the class.

Yep. A battleship with (near-useless) Type 0 sonar. Brilliant.

Musashi probably had it as well. It was more of a "are you kidding?" question.

[Gun Grape]

Originally Posted by RustyBattleship

It is true that the Israeli Defense Force "owned" the RPVs. But after New Jersey came back to the states some of the crewmen reported that their recon (and some helo air support) was provided by the Guam that used both helos and RPVs for their photo recon. Though New Jersey had her own helo deck, it was usually kept pretty clear in case turret III had to suddenly come into play. Perhaps the RPVs were only being tested off the Guam and not part of regular ops, but such testing would be a logical step towards permanent installation. Actually my most trusted source of info is from a friend who was a GM on New Jersey at the time.

Those crewmen were wrong. We did not do any "joint" ops with the IDF, including using their RPVs. Throughout 83 they were extremely hostile towards the MEU and they had pulled out of beirut before the Jersey got there.

The Guam never used RPVs. And the didn't fly them from her during the deployment. As a member of the BLT 2/8 who deployed aboard the Guam (2d worse ship ever) I can say RPVs were not there.

SecNav made the decision for the Navy/MC to get RPVs in 85. The First RPV unit was the 2d RPV company Camp Lejeune in July 86.The RPVs first deployed off BBs in Dec 86.

A small history note, the first CO of 2d RPV was the Cobra pilot shot down in Grenada that lost an arm. Capt Howard. Cannot remember his first name or ints.

[Gun Grape]

Originally Posted by TopHatter

Yep. A battleship with (near-useless) Type 0 sonar. Brilliant.

Musashi probably had it as well. It was more of a "are you kidding?" question.

The phrase "Breast on a Bull" comes to mind

edit its actuall a 3 letter wort that starts with T that is censored

[RustyBattleship]

For Gun Grape.

Well, one thing I have to agree with you on is the "quality" of the Guam.

In your other posting referring to the value of certain things on a Bull, I like the way Tennessee Ernie Ford put it one time on his TV show.

"That's about as useful as a milk bucket underneath a bull."

Gotta go. Committee members are arriving an hour early, fielded a phone call from my neighbor and passed it on to my wife.

No rest for the wicked.

[Dreadnought]

Originally Posted by TopHatter

Yep. A battleship with (near-useless) Type 0 sonar. Brilliant.

Musashi probably had it as well. It was more of a "are you kidding?" question.

Supposedly according to lure she had the best of what the IJN had to offer.

I agree with the type "o" sonar...uselesss except to let you know someone just put fish in the water somehwere in your general area otherwise pretty useless.

[Dreadnought]

When a capital ship was built for the USN what are mast coins?

p.s. Not sure if this is still followed in modern day shipbuilding practices.

[RustyBattleship]

Originally Posted by Dreadnought

When a capital ship was built for the USN what are mast coins?

p.s. Not sure if this is still followed in modern day shipbuilding practices.

Whan a warship was built, old tradition placed coins under the mast when it was stepped (set in place). The superstition was that if the ship sank, the coins would help pay for the boatman to cross over the River Styx.

Whether they do that anymore or not, I don't know. When we removed the mast on New Jersey in 1981 we found some coins. They were placed back under it with other memorabilia coins. However, we didn't find any coins under the Missouri's mast. Just some corroded metal that could have been coins.

[Dreadnought]

Absolutely correct. I have been told by older gentlemen that worked on the 2 Iowa's built here in Philly (New Jersy and Wissconsin) that it was considered good luck to have the mast coins. To them this meant that the builders paid extra special attention to ever detail including personalizing the ship to themselves.

[RustyBattleship]

As for Battleships not having SONAR, the philosophy at the time of their construction (1940's) was that was the job of ASW Destroyers that would always escort Battleships and Carriers. But that was when we had several thousands of ships in the Navy.

In Viet Nam, the only escort (or consort) New Jersey had was the guided missile cruiser England for AAW. There was no concern then about the NVN having submarines.

When we reactivated the BB's in the 80s there was some serious studies being done to mount transducers on the port and starboard sides of the ship's hull (slightly forward of Turret I) rather than adding a dome. Preliminary plans had already been drafted but the full project was never funded for detail design.

[Dreadnought]

LOL for torp strike protection to the Iowas we should have really profected the Philadelphia Experiment...roflmao Now that according to theory would be the very best protection there is...

[sparten]

Which is the only Battleship (except the Iowas), to have taken part in 3 Wars?

[Dreadnought]

Originally Posted by sparten

Which is the only Battleship (except the Iowas), to have taken part in 3 Wars?

Perhaps i should have asked afloat or not?

If afloat and American not including the Iowas then has to be Texas (BB35)

If not afloat I would probably say Japanese.

[sparten]

The ship I had in mind was an IJN pre-Dreadnought, which fought at Taushima, then took part in the bombardment of the German Garrison in China. Was converted to an ammo hulk in 1935 and was sunk by a US Sub in 1942.

USS Texas, is also correct, she took part in Veracruz right?

[Dreadnought]

Originally Posted by sparten

The ship I had in mind was an IJN pre-Dreadnought, which fought at Taushima, then took part in the bombardment of the German Garrison in China. Was converted to an ammo hulk in 1935 and was sunk by a US Sub in 1942.

USS Texas, is also correct, she took part in Veracruz right?

I figured it would have been a Japanese dread. I also tried to think of how many RN Dreads served long careers as well.

Yes Texas, supported troop landings at Vera Cruz, WWI,WWII. and she's still afloat. A tribute to the many dreads that served two wars and more. And she looks just great I might add.