BB trivia

[RustyBattleship]

Originally Posted by Shipwreck

Just like you said, the US did not use RPVs in Lebanon and did not conduct *joint ops* with the IDF at the time.

In addition, the Mastiff that was flown on board USS Guam in March 1984 was operated by the Israelis and belonged to the IDF.

Well, let's see now. In 1984 I was still Configuration Manager for all structural modifications for the reactivation and modernization of the Battleships.

The reports we got was that the RPVs off the Guam provided target information to the New Jersey. The value of such real time intelligence was immediatly noted and NAVSEA had to come up with some way to launch RPVs from Battleships and recover them.

Launching wasn't too complicated using a rocket to get it off the ramp. Recovery was something right out of Rube Goldberg catching the thing in a huge net.

So we started working on RPV installations on Missouri. During a meeting on the system, a report from the New Jersey's gunnery officer was, "Don't Leave Home Without It."

Oh. One more thing. We never heard the RPV called a Mastiff. We called it the Pioneer.

But then I only was part of the Navy Engineering team that modernized the Battleships.

[Shipwreck]

Originally Posted by RustyBattleship

The reports we got was that the RPVs off the Guam provided target information to the New Jersey.

Dick,

USS New Jersey fired her 16-inch guns for the last time off Lebanon on February 26, 1984 (13 rounds, near the village of Salima).

Mastiff was flown on board USS Guam on March 26, 1984, i.e. one month later.

Target data for USS New Jersey came from a variety of sources during her deployment off Lebanon, but none of these was Israeli and/or RPV.

[Shipwreck]

Originally Posted by RustyBattleship

So we started working on RPV installations on Missouri.

Dick,

USS Missouri left Bremerton for modernization/reactivation on May 15, 1984 and arrived LBNSY on May 25, 1984, i.e. almost two months after Uncle Ron formally announced the end of our participation in the international force in Lebanon (March 31, 1984) and nearly three months after the redeployment of the 22nd MAU to ships offshore was completed (February 26, 1984).

[Shipwreck]

Originally Posted by RustyBattleship

Oh. One more thing. We never heard the RPV called a Mastiff. We called it the Pioneer.

Mastiff and Pioneer are not the same beast, the latter being 30+% bigger than the former.

Below is a short abstract on RQ-2A Pioneer from the Navy website :

A competitive fly-off was conducted and two Pioneer systems were procured in December 1985 for testing during 1986. Initial system delivery was made in July 1986 and subsequently deployed on the battleship USS Iowa (BB 61) in December 1986. During 1987, three additional systems were delivered to the Marine Corps where they were operationally deployed on board LHA-class vessels as well as with several land-based units.

The first successful Pioneer flight and recovery on a battleship was on board USS Iowa on December 12, 1986, though it took another 6+ months (July 1987) to master the recovery process (4 of the 6 RPVs were lost during the January 1987 tests, one crashing on the ship during recovery and another two hitting helo safety-net stanchions during their landing approaches).

If you come across good ol' Seaquist in one of your HSMPS meetings, ask him to tell you one of his (many) good RPV stories.

[Gun Grape]

Originally Posted by Shipwreck

I can only stand by what I said earlier, i.e. :

1. The US Navy bought the Mastiff back in January of 1984.

2. The Mastiff was flown from shore on board USS Guam on 26 March 1984, while LPH-9 was cruising off the coast of Israel.

You'll find further confirmation for this in Friedman's Naval Weapons as far back as the 1989 edition (p. 51) :



Other internet sources confirm that the Navy acquired Mastiff in 1984, e.g. :

I think we are splitting hairs on this one. I'll agree they were bought in 84.
In that Buy only means to have the funds and put an order in for one.
Part of your fav SecNavs COTS buy. But an ONS wasn't done for RPVs until around June. And I know the MC didn't take possession until early 85 when they completed training in Isreal.

They were flying them but until they finished school the birds did not "Belong" to the US government.


Dick, I think you have your years mixed up.

[RustyBattleship]

Shipwreck:
I'm not going to argue with the information you dug up. All I can say is what I personally went through during the ship reactivations. Don't forget, I got my info and orders directly from NAVSEA. What dates are PUBLICLY published do not necessarily mean they are the actual dates. There's a lot of things that happened and what we did in Lebanon, Iraq, etc. with the BB's that have not been released to the public. And probably never will be or if it is there will be some editing to it.

It was my job to analyze some of the reports directly from the officers and crew who were there (especially if it had to do with ship structure). One of them lived across the street from me and let me drive his fully restored Ford Model T stake bed truck. He was very pleased to find somebody who knew how to double shift.

So what you read may or may not be TOTALLY true as there were some things we were ordered to do LONG before anybody else was supposed to know about it.

Including me. I was checking a ship of a certain class and noticed this rubber-like material glued onto certain bulkheads, lockers, etc. I had no idea what it was and what made it "worse" was the fact it was all added on at Pier 15 across the basin.

The next thing I knew I was assigned to be the West Coast Contact for installation of a STEALTH system aboard that class of ship.

Huh? Me? What?

Oh yes, I also had to write the SHIPALT and Installation Instructions.

So, don't believe everything you read as Gospel.

Including from me.




Loose Lips Sink Ships

[Shipwreck]

Originally Posted by Gun Grape

I think we are splitting hairs on this one. I'll agree they were bought in 84.

In that Buy only means to have the funds and put an order in for one.

(snip)

But an ONS wasn't done for RPVs until around June. And I know the MC didn't take possession until early 85 when they completed training in Isreal.

They were flying them but until they finished school the birds did not "Belong" to the US government.

That sounds about right. The January 1984 order was only for one complete system, with options for 2 or 3 more IIRC (I don't quite remember when these were actually exercised though).

Originally Posted by Gun Grape

Part of your fav SecNavs COTS buy.

And my favorite MC Commandant's shopping list.

[Shipwreck]

Originally Posted by RustyBattleship

I'm not going to argue with the information you dug up. All I can say is what I personally went through during the ship reactivations.

Dick,

Just like GG, I'm convinced that you got your years mixed up.

Since I'm not expecting anyone here to take my word for granted, the best I can offer are two pages from OPNAVINST 5750.12D discussing the subject (check paragraph c. on page 2).

I also reiterate my suggestion that you discuss this matter with Larry Seaquist should you have a chance to meet with him in your HSMPS activities.

[RustyBattleship]

You could be right. I may be off a year or so on one side or the other. Those were hectic times. Starting off in 1981 our boss came into our section and said, "Finish up what you have on other ships. Farm out any extra work that comes in. From now on we work strictly on the Battleship New Jersey. Landgraff is in charge and the section supervisor will merely sign the time cards and take care of any disciplinary problems if needed."

From then on it was 10 to 12 hours a day Monday through Friday and 8 hours on Saturdays and sometimes a few hours on Sundays. But we got the Big "J" out 2 months ahead of schedule and 2.1 million dollars under budget.

Then came Missouri. Then NAVSEA created a special Battleship manager section and I was immediately selected to handle all structural, hull, armor, berthing, sanitary facilities, mess deck arrangements, masts, antenna foundations, access cuts to get new equipment in and resistance to muzzle blast on all four ships.

Those were the busiest and often most hectic years of my 39 years at the shipyard.

And the most rewarding.

So if I slipped up on a year or two while trying to figure out how to put a giant butterfly net up to catch RPVs, where and how to locate and mount three different antennas for RPV guidance (one just for the "landing" mode), designing a two-piece deckhouse to act as hangar and workshop to fit under the barrels of turret III and still be unbolted small enough to be shipped between east and west coasts by rail -- forgive me. I'm only human - I think.

[Shipwreck]

Originally Posted by RustyBattleship

You could be right. I may be off a year or so on one side or the other. Those were hectic times.

Those were indeed hectic times.

And you guys at LBNSY did a great job !

[Dreadnought]

Not trivia but I caught this in last weeks paper.

It seems that the great great grandson of Otto Von Bismark "the Iron Chancellor" (yes the very same one the battleship was named after) commited suicide in London last week due to a massive cocain overdose.

Sheesh, what a waste of an awesome family name.

I will try to find the clip on the net and post it. If not I will site the newspaper article and type it.

[smilingassassin]

Another easy one, what Battleship was the first to be converted to an aircraft carrier?

[glyn]

Originally Posted by smilingassassin

Another easy one, what Battleship was the first to be converted to an aircraft carrier?

HMS Eagle, 1924.

[smilingassassin]

Correct, and the last BB to be converted to a Carrier?

[TopHatter]

Originally Posted by smilingassassin

Correct, and the last BB to be converted to a Carrier?

Hmm...right off the top of my head I want to say Kaga.