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Thread: USS Missouri (BB-63)FAQ

  1. #31
    Patron Sea Toby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadnought
    Ms. Margret Truman in Brooklyn Navy yard Jan 1944.
    Correct.... The only American woman to christen more than one ship.....

  2. #32
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    Wasnt sure if you were speaking of the "United States" as what we have here docked in Philly. She was the fastest cruise liner of her day and I believe still hold the record for her class although as time carries on she may have lost that title.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadnought
    Ms. Margret Truman in Brooklyn Navy yard Jan 1944.
    She was also at the recommissioning of Missouri in San Francisco in 1986.

  4. #34
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    A good shot of North Carolina's bridge. Notice shes not protected anything like the Iowa's.
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadnought
    A good shot of North Carolina's bridge. Notice shes not protected anything like the Iowa's.
    I believe that is primary conn up above the citadel tower around 07 or 08 level (on the Iowa's it's the 08 level). The armored secondary conn is 05 level inside the heavily armored fire control tower.

  6. #36
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    The Blue Ribband is the trophy the SS United States won easily on her maiden voyage both east and west bound from New York to England. However, she did lose it although disputed to one of the Austal built catermaran ferries in one direction, and it was close. Since the SS United States won the trophy without all of its boilers lit, I for one would like to see her attempt to steal it back with all of her boilers lit, she should do it. Technically, she still holds the Blue Ribband for one direction.....

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by RustyBattleship
    On an Iowa, the shell plating at waterline, where the suicide boat would have hit, is 1.5 inches thick of STS (Special Treated Steel) with a yield strength of 110,000 pounds per square inch (110 KPSI). That amount of "trigger plate" armor covers strakes M and N for much of the length of the ship (with shell strakes starting at A strake next to the keel and running outboard and up). Strakes O and up above are 5/8 inch thick HTS (High Tensile Steel) with a yield strength of about 70 KPSI.

    Inboard of the shell plating is a narrow fuel tank below 3rd deck and a void space above up to the Main Deck. Oh yeah, the 2nd deck shelf begins near the top of N strake supporting the 6 inch thick 2nd deck of laminated STS and Class B armor plating. Inboard of that fuel tank is another fuel tank. Inboard of that second fuel tank is a void space. Inboard of that void space is Class A armor 12.1 inches thick bolted to STS plating 1.5 inches thick. Inboard of that is another void space before you get into the main machinery rooms and 5 inch magazines. All outboard fuel tanks and void spaces are built of 5/8 inch thick HTS.

    Though an Iowa hull uses lots of rivets, they can be of advantage as crack arrestors such as likely in the HTS plating. The rivet plates (called butt straps) are 5/8 inch to 3/4 inch thick STS plating. Thickness varied between the first two ships of the class and the last two that used thicker plating in fragment protection and even in the Class A transverse bulkhead at frame 50.
    Would you care to venture a guess as to the RHA equvielancy of the portion of the Iowas hull that you're talking about(factoring in the spacing and bunkerage, etc) Mr. Landgraff?

    I imagine it must be immense.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by M21Sniper
    Would you care to venture a guess as to the RHA equvielancy of the portion of the Iowas hull that you're talking about(factoring in the spacing and bunkerage, etc) Mr. Landgraff?

    I imagine it must be immense.
    To begin with, the acronym RHA is not hitting the correct memory cells. But you have to consider the variable factors involved. The suicide boat was just a boat (aluminum or wood) with the bow packed with explosives. The explosives were not in a tempered steel warhead casing designed for penetration as would a torpedo or missile warhead or aerial bomb or large caliber artillery shell that the Iowa's were designed to resist.

    My personal estimate of casualties would mostly be confined to those who were on the Main Deck at the life lines watching the boat. Upon seeing it coming in on an apparent suicide run, most of the crewmen would have ducked behind the green water bulwarks I designed to prevent high seas from washing the small boats overside (an Iowa only has an 18 foot freeboard). Our bean counters in Type Desk did not want me to use HY-80 plating we made the extra armor of. So I had the sea water load force calculations done VERY conservatively and made the bullwarks out of Medium Strength Steel - 1/2 inch thick backed up with some hefty framework every 4 feet. They were also slanted inboard a bit with the tops curving outboard to "deflect sea water". It was reported that they worked very well for green water protection. However, they would have also redirected concussion from the blast as well or in the case of a small boat attack of machine gunners would have "returned bullets to sender".

    Between the Main Deck (1.5 inch thick STS) and the 2nd deck (4.75 inches of Class B armor quilt pinned [something like a welded cold rivet] to 1.25 inches of STS) the extension of torpedo bhd 3 runs up at an angle creating a void space between it and the shell plating. At that part of the ship, the only habitability areas were crew's showers and some minor offices. Berthing was still further inboard of the showers and then the maintenance shops inboard of that.

    Considering the attack occured during mid-day meal call, most of the crew would have been in the twin mess halls aft of bhd 166 and the officers would have been in officers mess on Main Deck well forward.

    It would have been something like Admiral Snyder's answer to a question of possible damage to New Jersey when he commanded her in Viet Nam. "Sweepers, man your brooms."

    Oh, I just remembered another comparison and that is when the Kamikaze hit the Missouri in WW II. It hit the shell plating just aft of the superstructure just below Main Deck. The wingtip hit the shell plating first and spun the plane around where its nose spinner hit. Then it blew up, but outside the ship. It caused a small fire on the teakwood decking, one of the plane's machineguns penetrated the flash hider of a 40mm gun and the upper half of the pilot's body landed on the aft side of the 3/4 inch thick shield of a 40mm quad gun mount. When we inspected the ship in Bremerton back in late 1982, I took a picture of the two dents still remaining in the shell plating. I donated that photo to Paul Stillwell who published it in his book on the Missouri.

    Naturally, one of the planners upstairs made up a phoney job order for me to repair those dents. My answer to him would be censored on this board.

  9. #39
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    Damn....now THAT is an answer.

    RHA= rolled homogenous armor.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by M21Sniper
    Damn....now THAT is an answer.

    RHA= rolled homogenous armor.
    Aha! Class B armor is usually rolled homogenous such as the 2nd deck plating. The Class B fronts of the main turrets is partially rolled from a bloom and then machined (which is why Class B was selected instead of the face hardened Class A).

    In a sense, the old STS plating, the newer HY plating and the newest HSLA plating serve the same purposes as rolled homogenous armor. Its the chromium and nickel contents that give them their toughness that resists cracking. Too much chromium and nickel would put them in the Stainless Steel classes. At times we used that also as fragmentation protection (though it's yield strength is more like medium strength steel) where corrosive protection and/or low magnetic permiablility (such as on minesweepers) was needed.

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    LOL, we owe TH big for getting you over here.

    I still have a book i have to send him too...LOL, kinda forgot bro.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by M21Sniper
    LOL, we owe TH big for getting you over here.

    I still have a book i have to send him too...LOL, kinda forgot bro.
    Agreed. Its nice to have someone that can talk free of quoting god knows how many articles, rumors and speculation.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by M21Sniper
    LOL, we owe TH big for getting you over here.

    I still have a book i have to send him too...LOL, kinda forgot bro.
    Not to worry. And I've already picked up the first one Marine Sniper.

    Come to think of it, I also bought another copy of Shattered Sword, having given my own copy to Dad a few months ago.
    Far better it is to dare mighty things, than to take rank with those poor, timid spirits who know neither victory nor defeat ~ Theodore Roosevelt

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by TopHatter
    Not to worry. And I've already picked up the first one Marine Sniper.

    Come to think of it, I also bought another copy of Shattered Sword, having given my own copy to Dad a few months ago.
    TH,
    I have seen the web site for Shattered Sword and im looking at getting the book its seeems really interesting.

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadnought
    TH,
    I have seen the web site for Shattered Sword and im looking at getting the book its seeems really interesting.
    Don't think about it, just buy it. You'll be glad you did

    So far, I've managed to buy 3 copies. I gave my first copy to my dad, one for Sniper and finally a third for me to keep
    Far better it is to dare mighty things, than to take rank with those poor, timid spirits who know neither victory nor defeat ~ Theodore Roosevelt

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