USS New Jersey in Lebanon Channeling Thread

[Shipwreck]

As briefly alluded to in post #43 in this thread, a large US airstrike was cancelled at the last minute in early November of 1983, i.e. about one month before the sabotaged airstrike of 4 December 1983 (see posts #31 and #32 in this thread).

Below are some details on this cancelled airstrike given by Chuck Pfarrer in his Warrior Soul : The Memoir of a Navy Seal

Pages 254-255 : A week before we rotated onto Iwo, Frank's boat crews had mounted out to provide combat search and rescue for a large American air strike.

Launched from Dwight D. Eisenhower, the air raid was supposed to be a multisquadron attack package, Intruders, Corsairs, and Tomcats delivering a six-pack of whoop-a$$ called an alpha strike.

The entire complement of Eisenhower's combat aircraft had been loaded with ordnance, launched, and flown toward Lebanon, ready to pummel the Shouf and Bekaa valley.

But the air strike never happened. At the last minute, Washington pulled the plug. The planes did a U-turn, dropped their bombs into the sea, and returned to the carrier.

This aborted airstrike was the only retribution the Reagan administration was to attempt for the bombing of the marine barracks. The averted air strike was kept secret for years. Its effect on marine morale can probably be imagined.

[Shipwreck]

2. The airstrike of 4 December 1983, where 2 aircrafts were lost, was sabotaged and the apparent failure of this airstrike was what cleared the way for USS New Jersey to use her 16-inch guns.

To summarize :

1. A large US airstrike prepared in retaliation to the suicide bombing of the Marine barracks at BAI was cancelled by *Washington* in early November of 1983. This had a termendously negative impact on marine morale as can easily be imagined. (see post #46)

2. A second US airstrike was sabotaged on 4 December 1983 when *Washington* issued instructions to the effect that USN aircrafts should operate at a level of 6,000 meters (instead of low altitude as planned initially) and would fly with the rising sun in their eyes because of the time change for the strike (5:45-6:30 a.m. instead of 11:00 a.m. as planned initially). This resulted in the loss of two USN planes, one pilot DIA and another one POW. (see posts #31 & #32)

3. The French airstrike of 17 November 1983 showed that the low-altitude airstrike initially planned for the sabotaged US air strike of 4 December 1983 could not only result in the targets being surgically obliterated, but also that this could be accomplished without combat losses. (see post #43)

4. The apparent failure of the sabotaged airstrike of 4 December 1983 is what cleared the way for USS New Jersey to use her 16-inch guns for the first time on 14 December 1983 (she had arrived off the coasts of Lebanon on 25 September 1983).

5. The aborted airstrike of early November 1983 was kept secret for years, the official documents on the sabotaged attack of 4 December 1983 have never been published and the official documents on the abysmally poor gunnery performance of USS New Jersey in Lebanon (including the GAO study) are still classified (or their distribution is limited to US Govt agencies only).

[navy namvet]

I was in Nam when the New Jersey came over. my ship carried the 16" shells for her. they were as big as a volkswagen. one I saw had a manufacturing date of 1937. most of that ammo/bombs used was very old, rusted and often just rolled over side.

[BBwarrior]

Nice pic, navy namvet. Was this pic taken aboard the Big J? I'm also curious as to what Type of shells these are. Are they HC or AP shells?

[navy namvet]

Nice pic, navy namvet. Was this pic taken aboard the Big J? I'm also curious as to what Type of shells these are. Are they HC or AP shells?

I have no idea. either Armour piercing or bombardment.

[RustyBattleship]

I was in Nam when the New Jersey came over. my ship carried the 16" shells for her. they were as big as a volkswagen. one I saw had a manufacturing date of 1937. most of that ammo/bombs used was very old, rusted and often just rolled over side.

We used a lot of surplus WW II ammo in that war from M-1 Carbine up to 16-inch shells and even aerial bombs.

As for the shells in the picture, those 5-foot, 4-inch tall shells painted Olive Drab with the 8-inch wide Yellow band at the nose are 1,900 lb High Explosive (HE) shells (aka Hi-Cap or High Capacity). Those in the background appear to be painted blue but out of range of the flash camera. If blue, then they would be BLP's (Blind Loaded Plugs or Inert dummy shells for practice shooting). If they are black they would be 6-foot tall, weigh 2,700 lbs and labeled Armor Piercing.

Color markings on the shells are interesting. Olive Drab shells with a yellow checkerboard band are anti-personnel that carry 400 Bouncing Betty mines in each one. I have seen Olive Drab shells with a Yellow band of narrow diamonds but never bothered to look up what kind of explosive(s) they carried. It could have been a flare shell.

I don't think we ever made any 16-inch shells to carry White Phosphorus but the 5-inchers had some. So did my tank but they were only good for starting forest fires as far as I was concerned.

[BBwarrior]

Thanks for the info, Rusty. Got any good pics of AP shells you could post?

I always wondered if AP shells were used in shore bombardment - perhaps to bust up concrete fortifications or bunkers? Or were those fire missions strictly HE?

[navy namvet]

We used a lot of surplus WW II ammo in that war from M-1 Carbine up to 16-inch shells and even aerial bombs.

As for the shells in the picture, those 5-foot, 4-inch tall shells painted Olive Drab with the 8-inch wide Yellow band at the nose are 1,900 lb High Explosive (HE) shells (aka Hi-Cap or High Capacity). Those in the background appear to be painted blue but out of range of the flash camera. If blue, then they would be BLP's (Blind Loaded Plugs or Inert dummy shells for practice shooting). If they are black they would be 6-foot tall, weigh 2,700 lbs and labeled Armor Piercing.

Color markings on the shells are interesting. Olive Drab shells with a yellow checkerboard band are anti-personnel that carry 400 Bouncing Betty mines in each one. I have seen Olive Drab shells with a Yellow band of narrow diamonds but never bothered to look up what kind of explosive(s) they carried. It could have been a flare shell.

I don't think we ever made any 16-inch shells to carry White Phosphorus but the 5-inchers had some. So did my tank but they were only good for starting forest fires as far as I was concerned.

after ww2 they really had no use for Armor Piercing. so I figured these were HE for bombardment. just 1 shell could wipe out a city block. and in Nam the gooks were scared shi*less of these. this was the one weapon they feared over all others. and they made that point at the Paris peace talks. send the NJ home or there will be no talks at all. so there you have the enemy telling you what he fears the most. now. if we were fighting to win, we tell em sign now or we bring over the other 3.

[Johnny W]

I don't think we ever made any 16-inch shells to carry White Phosphorus but the 5-inchers had some. So did my tank but they were only good for starting forest fires as far as I was concerned.

I once had to handle those 5 inch White Phosphorus shells during an ammo offload. The officer in charge of the evolution had us so paranoid that we were cradling the things in our arms. They probably were not quite as volatile as he made them out to be, but best to err on the side of caution.

[Johnny W]

after ww2 they really had no use for Armor Piercing. so I figured these were HE for bombardment. just 1 shell could wipe out a city block. and in Nam the gooks were scared shi*less of these. this was the one weapon they feared over all others. and they made that point at the Paris peace talks. send the NJ home or there will be no talks at all. so there you have the enemy telling you what he fears the most. now. if we were fighting to win, we tell em sign now or we bring over the other 3.

There was some discussion about using them for piercing concrete bunkers, but as far as I know, we never tested them in that capacity.

[navy namvet]

BTY I served on an ammo ship. an AE. (auxiliary explosive) our holds we full of everything in ordinance the Navy used. with the hatche's closed or open it really got hot down there. so alarms were always going off. AE's don't go down. they up then down........

[S2]

Had a buddy who deployed in 1983 as the plt. ldr for a TPSQ-37 Firefinder section sent to Lebanon from Ft. Sill. I believe that they came out of III Corps Arty TAB rather than from the school but could be wrong. Said they used the N.J. to shoot up targets all over, including into the Bekaa. Sounded too far to me but I'm sure that Firefinder was doing some shooting into the hills around Beirut, at the very least

[navy namvet]

they were ideal for showing the flag. and saber rattling. just the mere sight of one made an enemy start breathing funny.

[RustyBattleship]

Armor piercing shells were used for very successful bunker busting against Japanese bunkers with 16-foot thick concrete walls (by Wisconsin).

AP didn't get much call in Korea, but were used for deep penetrations where VC caves and tunnels were suspected.

Finally in the the Gulf War, Wisconsin was given a deja-vu release to break open Sadaams bunkers of only 12-foot thick concrete walls.


As for gingerly handling 5-inch WP, you were given the wrong instructions. WP must be vertical at all times and not stowed or carried horizontal like other ordnance. In the WP magazine a large deluge tank of water was to be ready at all times in case the Phosphorus started oozing through the fuse seam. Contact with air will ignite Phosphorus when it dries out.

[Shipwreck]

Had a buddy who deployed in 1983 as the plt. ldr for a TPSQ-37 Firefinder section sent to Lebanon from Ft. Sill. I believe that they came out of III Corps Arty TAB rather than from the school but could be wrong.

TPQ-36.

See post #34.